schill bidding

[earlywynnfan]

I can understand shill bidding from an auction house or ebay: the point is to drive up the price on an item you own.

But I'm mystified why someone would shill bid on MLB or NFL auctions. Nobody out there owns this stuff, except the teams. Are we implying the teams are shill bidding? Or that some jackass is just out there bidding people up because he has nothing better to do?

Ken

[jojac]

The lesser of the 2 evils would be some idiot just running you up. The other side of it would be hard to take but the thing that bothers me is that its someones job to sell this stuff to us and the only way they look good in managements eyes is to get top dollar for it. A lot of the teams now have game used stores at the ball parks where they could get a premium prices on their items. If an item posted on an auction site isn't meeting what they consider to be fair market value expectation then why not have a shill run it up??? Worse case scenario is they win the bid and sell the item at a later date thru their store . I'm not saying this is whats happening just that it could easily be done.
You can understand shill bidding from an auction house or ebay then you should also be wondering as I do if is it happening here. Auction house, ebay or mlb are all doing it for money so why would one be any better than the other.

[xsentrixsupra]

I can understand ebay or other auction houses. However when buying directly from MLB or NBA or NFL, etc........that money all goes to charities for the most part and as much as it might be to the common man, the difference between 2500 versus 3000 for a jersey meant for charity really isn't a drop in the bucket for organizations worth billions.

[jojac]

If its true that the majority of money did go to charities then theres still the incentive to get as much $$$ as possible in an auction setting for an item due to the tax break on contributions. The more they make then the more they can donate and the more they can write off. That's a great deal for them because then they look good donating your money that you've spent on an item and their money stays in their pocket. MLB, ebay and auction house are all doing this for no other reason then to make money......they're all businesses.

[xsentrixsupra]

If its true that the majority of money did go to charities then theres still the incentive to get as much $$$ as possible in an auction setting for an item due to the tax break on contributions. The more they make then the more they can donate and the more they can write off. That's a great deal for them because then they look good donating your money that you've spent on an item and their money stays in their pocket. MLB, ebay and auction house are all doing this for no other reason then to make money......they're all businesses.

I don't know how much goes to charities, but I'm pretty sure its well over half. Anyways, I still don't feel on official league sites that are auctioning stuff off schill bidding happens that much, probably more coincidence.

[jojac]

Might be coincidence but then why change your bidder name after you run up a couple of people. He's had 3 bidders name in 2 month's and that seems suspicious to me. I haven't been doing this that long and that's why I came to you guys with the question. So I guess when I see some one bid a few people up and quit then change his bidder name and start running other people up and then change his name again I should just consider it coincidence???
I guess I'm naive because I didn't think their would be a reason to change your name so often if you were playing by the rules.

[onlyalbert]

Might be coincidence but then why change your bidder name after you run up a couple of people. He's had 3 bidders name in 2 month's and that seems suspicious to me. I haven't been doing this that long and that's why I came to you guys with the question. So I guess when I see some one bid a few people up and quit then change his bidder name and start running other people up and then change his name again I should just consider it coincidence???
I guess I'm naive because I didn't think their would be a reason to change your name so often if you were playing by the rules.

What would be the point of changing the bidder name? If you never plan on winning anything why would you care about the name? It is strange and frustrating, but shilling goes on all the time and nothing ever seems to get done about it.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

If its true that the majority of money did go to charities then theres still the incentive to get as much $$$ as possible in an auction setting for an item due to the tax break on contributions. The more they make then the more they can donate and the more they can write off. That's a great deal for them because then they look good donating your money that you've spent on an item and their money stays in their pocket. MLB, ebay and auction house are all doing this for no other reason then to make money......they're all businesses.

This makes no sense logically. If the organization donates 100% of the proceeds of the auction, what is being written off? The donated amount comes in and goes out. The "write off" is against "profits" that were immediately donated.

Best way I can explain it:

Team A makes $45mm net of expenses and decides to donate their jerseys, etc to a charity. The auctioned items sell for $500k. The team then gives the $500k to the charity.

Team B makes $45mm net of expenses and also decides to donate their jerseys, etc to a charity. The auctioned items sell for $300k. The team then gives the $300k to the charity.

Both Team A and Team B made $45mm in taxable net revenue after the auction. The assumed shilling would serve no purpose for the teams in question, from a taxable event standpoint. The teams don't get to write off the donated cash AND the value of the bats. They only get the write off the amount that was donated, which also counts as additional revenue from outside sources.

Yes, Team A donated $200k more than Team B, but Team A also has to show that as $200k extra in revenue, which then got donated. The net result for both teams is $0.

[jojac]

I based my reply on some notion that the selling of jerseys is done for the purpose of some charity as people have claimed. I'm not gonna guess how they or who ever shows this money as income and then try to guess where it gets dispersed. Theres room to play with the numbers if you take into account the cost to prep, advertise and sell these jerseys not to mention the initial cost of the jersey. Theres room to play with the numbers at tax time if the charity thing is what their doing. The whole charity thing is insignificant either way when you talk about possible shill bidding.
The bottom line is someone is getting paid to sell these jerseys and show a profit so how and who is doing this for the teams. If they're being paid a commission to move these items then no one would be surprised by possible shill bidding. Teams that have their own team store have thousands of people moving thru there on game day. If an item doesn't meet expectations at auction could they high bid it and later offer it to one of the store regulars at a set price then turning a profit??? I think its very possible.

[johnsontravis@ymail.com]

I think the idea is a little far fetched. You guys understand MLB does run the MLB Auctions right? I think they control a lot more than you think too.

I'm guessing the auctions work a lot like EBay with the people in NY in the middle. I bought something that included a free hat and I was contacted by the MLB Auctions Coordinator for my hat size...not the Brewers. Seems like one of the things teams don't get is your contact info like email.

Just like EBay they see your username till you win that is it. Then they will get your address and so on.