Game Used, Issued, Etc.

[Rmmm912]

Re: Game Used, Issued, Etc.

Guys, I was simply posting some information so that you knew that we are concerned about the issue and know that improvements can and should be made. If you want to take this as an opportunity to turn it into a negative, that is your prerogative.

But saying we are part of the problem is akin to saying that if Sears sells a knife and someone uses it to commit a crime, then Sears is also contributing to that problem...with respect to this topic, we are simply selling what is in our inventory, and whether you choose to believe this or not, game issued sales represent a negligible amount of total sales.

The simple fact is that these game issued items already exist--we do not manufacture them. The only alternative would be to a) tell the Yankees "thanks", but we don't want them, or b) give them away...and in either case, they will end up in the same exact place...in the secondary market.

[suave1477]

Re: Game Used, Issued, Etc.

Guys, I was simply posting some information so that you knew that we are concerned about the issue and know that improvements can and should be made. If you want to take this as an opportunity to turn it into a negative, that is your prerogative.

But saying we are part of the problem is akin to saying that if Sears sells a knife and someone uses it to commit a crime, then Sears is also contributing to that problem...with respect to this topic, we are simply selling what is in our inventory, and whether you choose to believe this or not, game issued sales represent a negligible amount of total sales.

The simple fact is that these game issued items already exist--we do not manufacture them. The only alternative would be to a) tell the Yankees "thanks", but we don't want them, or b) give them away...and in either case, they will end up in the same exact place...in the secondary market.

Again Bob, this is not an opportunity to turn it into a negative but if your going to speak out loud on he forum about a sensitive subject as we all have been burned at some point in our past with a fraudulent item, then you should be receptive to the feedback whether good or bad.

Are you part of the Problem? YES take responsibility for your actions!!! Are you the whole problem? NO
As far as your Sears analogy wrong choice!!! Yes its true Sears is part of the problem and the court of law already agrees, remember Columbine??????? Kmart got in trouble for selling the guns!!! If Sears over produces Knives and sells it out to everyone and anyone then you have alot more weapons out there to do harm with

Again I am not saying to not sell them at all but to just put a limit, I think that is fair and will cut back a bit on doctored Jerseys

Bob I want you to know I do commend you for coming to the forum to discuss this with us, but at the same time be prepared for how we feel thats alll

I AM DONE EITHER WAY TO BOB HAVE A HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!

[kingjammy24]

Re: Game Used, Issued, Etc.

george, i'm confused by what you're saying. i understand you feel frustrated, as a seller, because you believe steiner has inadvertantly made it difficult for you to sell your yankee items. however, before steiner ever came along, the yankees had notoriously tight controls on their uniforms and even went after collectors who possessed them. given this, were you really buying and selling yankee items with reckless abandon before steiner? before steiner, most collectors wouldn't have believed you managed to get something out of the yankees clubhouse and those who did wouldn't have had the guts to buy your items anyway for fear the police would come calling. if people doubt your items now because they don't have steiner paperwork then i don't see how this was any better before steiner came along.

second, while i understand the frustration of having people think your items aren't legit simply because they lack a steiner letter, you have to look at things from a buyer's perspective. this hobby is rife with sellers spinning fantastical stories of how they got their item "straight from the player/equipment manager/team source!", all without a single shred of evidence. most of these stories are festering loads of crap that typically end up being proven false. i think collectors have had it with all the garbage stories and they're willing to spend more and relegate themselves to a single source that they know for a fact has legit team/player access. therefore, while mattingly may indeed have given you a jersey personally, you can understand the natural reluctance of buyers to believe what sounds like just another b.s. story.
you know what i've never understood about these stories? the complete lack of any proof whatsoever. if i'm going to meet a player and personally get a jersey from them, you'd think i'd at least bring my camera to take a pic of us with the jersey. maybe even just a pad of paper for the athlete to write a short note. yet instead collectors are asked to place their faith in some story of how someone was once joe montana's gardener and in return for some great tulips, they got a jersey, and didn't even get so much as a photo, quick note or anything from anyone involved. if these acquisitions are legit (not stolen), then the individual shouldn't have a problem with such a request. i think collectors would be open to purchasing non-steiner yankee pieces if there was some decent proof of how they were acquired. i've purchased jays jerseys from third-party sources that didn't have jays paperwork. when they told me how and where they acquired the jerseys, i checked out all the names and facts and had them write a letter documenting the details of their acquisition. i knew i had to if anyone was ever going to believe the jerseys were legit.

"Would my item personally given to me by Donnie himself and Lampson authenticated be any less valuable than the same item with a Steiner cert."

it all comes down to whose story is believeable, doesn't it? both sides are saying they've got a mattingly jersey. steiner has proof. do you? if not, how can you realistically expect buyers to view your jersey as equal to steiners? i realize that before steiner, meigray and the like, most jerseys didn't come with team/player provenance. that simply meant a level playing field. noone had any proof of anything. all of a sudden, steiner comes along, signs an exclusive contract with the yankees, and instantly they've got provenance that's more substantiable than the usual unsubstantiated stories. the playing field isn't level anymore. if you want to level it again, then just make your provenance as good as steiners. written documentation from mattingly would be at least equal to a steiner cert if not better.

eric: i don't think there are any issues with selling game-issued jerseys. i believe that the damage done by steiner was in not having a better system (see: meigray) from the beginning. the holograms are rubbish as they can easily be removed and put on other jerseys. the letters barely have any unique info. there are no unique ids. i can buy a rich monteleone game-issued jersey for $500, remove the generic steiner hologram, put it on my $200 jeter procut from ebay, then put a piece of paper over the jersey description in the steiner letter, have kinkos photocopy it with a revised description literally taped over it, and presto. i now have a steiner derek jeter game-used jersey. price: $15k. from the very start, it was a braindead system. while i agree with bob that people will always try to circumvent things, i think you'd at least want to make it a little difficult for them. the issue is that steiner went out without having any way to permanently mark and track every single jersey. why couldn't steiner do what meigray did? they're only now starting to mark them with a dot. they're not sure if they'll use invisible ink too. maybe. maybe not. they've been selling jerseys for 2 yrs and they're just working out the security measures now?! better late than never i suppose. bob, two words for you: unique ids. if steiner can't wrap their heads around it, then don't bother thinking and just copy the meigray system. barry's done the brainwork. hopefully steiner at least has the resources to copy it.

rudy.

[JETEFAN]

Re: Game Used, Issued, Etc.

Guys, I was simply posting some information so that you knew that we are concerned about the issue and know that improvements can and should be made. If you want to take this as an opportunity to turn it into a negative, that is your prerogative.

But saying we are part of the problem is akin to saying that if Sears sells a knife and someone uses it to commit a crime, then Sears is also contributing to that problem...with respect to this topic, we are simply selling what is in our inventory, and whether you choose to believe this or not, game issued sales represent a negligible amount of total sales.

The simple fact is that these game issued items already exist--we do not manufacture them. The only alternative would be to a) tell the Yankees "thanks", but we don't want them, or b) give them away...and in either case, they will end up in the same exact place...in the secondary market.

Bob,
Steiner is in the buisness to make money, as it should. but Steiner has decided to enter a very passionate hobby representing Billions of dollars, to put out a product in many cases without proper or lack of information is irresponsible and bad buisness. I can't even get Steiner to tell me what year a bat was used!! For your prices that's a joke!! If you are taking on the role of "the only "Yankees providers, then you need to find a way for a "game issued" to remain that (Mark it in some way) know the who, what, when and where of each item you sell, or yes maybe tell the Yankees no thanks on an item you can't provide information on. Your right items do exist, mainly thanks to Steiner, so I guess the solution is if you don't provide them, someone else will great news!! The hobby thanks you!

[CollectGU]

Re: Game Used, Issued, Etc.

Bob,
Steiner is in the buisness to make money, as it should. but Steiner has decided to enter a very passionate hobby representing Billions of dollars, to put out a product in many cases without proper or lack of information is irresponsible and bad buisness. I!

George,

Is this more or less irresponsible than your selling your Yankees items for many thousands of dollars as game used and then saying that you need to protect your "sources" when asked for detailed provenance. I hate to pick a fight, but part of me thinks you are trying to take this stance simply to protect your investments in these Yankee items you are trying to sell without Steiner paperwork...Take your Clemens from 2001 World Series for example. We've already established that he didn't waer it while pitching from photo evidence. Now your contention that he could have worn your jersey on non-pitching days means the buyer must make a huge leap of faith, especially considering that all the photo evidence from everyday players shows them wearing the same pinstriped uniform throughout the entire series -that includes Jeter, Brosius, and Martinez from my research in Getty. Why did these players all use the same home uniform and Clemens did not? So, the leap of faith must get larger to accept your theory. Last, you mentioned that you priced it like a "game issued", but it doesn't matter how you priced it's how you are selling it- as game jersey for $6,000.


Regards,
Dave

[allstarsplus]

Re: Game Used, Issued, Etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JETEFAN
99.9% of collectors are going to beleive a Steiner item over anything else, as well they should, the odds would be in their favor, but I don't think that every time a Yankees collector tries to sell a Yankees item he should be crucified for not having a Steiner Cert. and assumed to be selling garbage for doing so.

George - I am not trying to pile on you, but the points on that Clemens WS jersey is very compelling. Clemens pitched in 1 home game and sat on the bench for 2 as the Yankees only had 3 home games in the 2001 series. Personally, I think your source has some explaining! Did you buy that Clemens jersey shortly after the World Series or did you buy it in the last few years when Steiner had the deal with the Yankees? To me that is a key fact that we don't know. I already disclosed that Steiner sold 2 home WS 2001 Clemens as game issued. Very odd.

I copied over your quote from the For Sale section. Your quote says it all. 99.9% is overwhelming. That means by your statistics that only 1 in 1,000 would believe a non-Steiner item.

By your own statistic you understand why there is all the skepticism. You shouldn't be crucified for having the Yankee jersey without the cert, but we are all smart enough to know that all of these Yankee jerseys out there can't be legit. Yours may be legit, but unless you are that certain you must have some small degree of doubt. That is the beauty of Steiner, in your situation when you need to sell something---you have the paper behind it.

My recent count this week of game used Jeter jerseys with no Steiner COAs is at 4 that I easily found. Misturini has some, 1 for $6,500 on eBay w/ Lampson, the Mastronet w/ Lampson and the Historic w/ Lampson.

Seems to be a pattern here.

Also keep in mind that the Yankees have made no changes to their uniform policy in internal controls and wear patterns. The only change is their deal with Steiner.

Logic is the key here.

[Eric]

Re: Game Used, Issued, Etc.

I hear the points made here about the game issued pieces already in the market with no way to track them, BUT Yankees Steiner has made an effort to send things in the right direction and I'd rather have it this way than the way it has been.

You can say the damage has been done in the NFL Auctions situation, but I'd rather havve them track or mark their game cuts too instead of things moving along as they have been.

Again, think of it this way- would you rather see an auction house with dozens of NFL star game used jerseys with an "expert" letter or one saying that it's from NFL Auctions.

Even with the damage done with NFL Game cuts being doctored and re-sold, it would change the marketplace for the better. And don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean that the pieces without the Yankees Steiner or NFL PSA DNA letter aren't real, you're just cutting your odds and people these days seem to be paying a premium to cut those odds.

Just look at the 6K Philip Rivers chargers game used throwback jersey and the 5K Tomlinson throwback pants.

Eric

[Rmmm912]

Re: Game Used, Issued, Etc.

It's apparent that we are in a no win situation--unless we can find a way to "unring the bell" in many people's eyes. Again, we do not manufacture the jerseys--that is an arrangement between the Yankees and Majestic, so to take us to task for the number that is out there is off base--sorry, but that is how I feel. If you want to critique our system, that is fine, as I have said numerous times, I respect those opinions as well--and to some degree we are acknowledging that viewpoint by making changes.

The fact that we "cannot even say what year bats are from" (to paraphrase), is simply because we are not provided with those details--we are not given records to support when bats were ordered/shipped, etc...and with all the times we are asked for a specific player/year bat, the easy route would be to speculate and sell, yet we do not (in some instances however, a player will confirm a timeframe of use, and we will be comfortable authenticating a year in those instances).

It is ironic however, that some of the very people blasting us for putting too many game issued items into circulation, will contact me direct and ask for specific player game issued jerseys--I am not interesting in disclosing names here, but let's not be hypocrites here...

[allstarsplus]

Re: Game Used, Issued, Etc.

It's apparent that we are in a no win situation--unless we can find a way to "unring the bell" in many people's eyes.

It is ironic however, that some of the very people blasting us for putting too many game issued items into circulation, will contact me direct and ask for specific player game issued jerseys--I am not interesting in disclosing names here, but let's not be hypocrites here...

Bob - You know the old saying, "Don't shoot the messenger". It would be a different story if Brandon Steiner posted on here, but you certainly don't deserve any blame rather you deserve praise as there is finally a strategy with respect to the game issued items.

Andrew