Quote Originally Posted by whatupyos View Post
Palmero was caught and served time for steriod use, but its unfair to say he's part of the user group when McGwire, Bonds and Sosa have never been convicted of using!!!
It would take a pretty hardline Bonds fanboy - and there are plenty out there - to argue that Barry Bonds never used steroids. There is an absolute mountain of evidence on Bonds as a user of the steroids Trenbolone and Stanozolol, as well as hGH, the cream, the clear, Depo-Testosterone, insulin, Clomid, Mexican red beans (Testosterone Decanoate). When hearing of the BALCO raid, Bonds called Anderson and told him to erase all records held on his computer - the same records which were used in the conviction of Greg Anderson for steroid distribution. Before a grand jury, Bonds only ever denied taking steroids "knowingly", while claiming that he believed the clear to be flaxseed oil, and the cream to be arthritis cream. He admitted to using both on those grounds, something which anyone who knows him finds extremely hard to believe. He was outed by his former girlfriend as a user, then mysteriously vanished to have "knee surgery" prior to the first season of testing.

There may be less evidence on Mark McGwire, but there is enough to raise more than moderate suspicion. Like a lot of people, you take shots at Canseco's credibility. Besides not liking the guy, why label Canseco an untrustworthy source? The claims made in his book have stood up to criticism well, have not drawn a single lawsuit from a named player, and have been backed up by subsequent events. McGwire had an opportunity to shoot down Canseco's allegations before a Congressional hearing, but decided to plead the fifth amendment and make clear his unwillingness to discuss the past. Why would he take such a stance if he had nothing to hide? His trainer in the late 80s was also busted for steroid distribution.

Of the three players you named, Sosa is the only one who has come out of this without a shred of evidence brought to light. Sammy himself has subsequently denied ever using performance enhancing drugs of any kind. Despite suspicion, there really isn't anything on the guy. There is more circumstantial evidence on Albert Pujols than has ever come up on Sammy.

Quote Originally Posted by whatupyos View Post
Lets take it back to the old school...what about stimulants when back in the day a bowl full of "greenies" would be sitting on the table in the clubhouse for all to pop?
I'm with Jason on this one. You can't simply label the mid 80s-2000s the steroid era, and the 70s as a time when greenies were the only drug of choice. Steroids have been used in sports for years, going back to the 50s and 60s. Who's to say what players in the 1970s were or were not using? We'd be fooling ourselves if we believed we knew.

Not all steroid users are created equal. When you look at what Bonds was using in comparison to other players, there really is no comparison. He had access to all the latest designer steroids, a trainer and lab who cycled his doses, monitored his usage and performance charts, and tailored the perfect cocktail for his body. It bore itself out in the numbers.

Canseco educated himself best he could as a young minor leaguer in the mid 80s and took the plunge in an effort to make the big leagues. Bonds was perhaps already destined for the hall of fame, but caught up in his well documented jealousy of McGwire. I'm not defending Canseco, but I don't view them in the same way.