Don Mattingly's disgrace

[Roady]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

I have a question I would like to hear some opinions on. I'm a White Sox fan and I would like to know if the game relies on the manager so much how the hell did the sox win in 2005? Was Ozzie a good manager for a year and then just unbelievably bad the rest of his career?

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

[coxfan]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

These discussions remind me of what someone said of Casey Stengel: "I knew Casey both before and after he was a genius." Stengel was a consistently unsuccessful manager before being hired by the Yankees.

[Mark17]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

These discussions remind me of what someone said of Casey Stengel: "I knew Casey both before and after he was a genius." Stengel was a consistently unsuccessful manager before being hired by the Yankees.

And then he finished with four 10th place finishes with the Mets. So call me crazy but I think Mantle, Berra, Ford and that bunch had something to do with Stengel being in the Hall as a manager.

[coxfan]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

Some of Stengel's Yankee players have been critical of him in various ways. And when Stengel managed the Boston Braves in 1943, he was hit by a car at the start of the season. As a result he missed the first few weeks before he recovered enough to return to the dugout. One Boston writer rudely recommended the car's driver for Boston's "Sportsman of the Year".

When Stengel testified before Congress during his Yankee years, his Stengelese was incomprehensible to the solons. So when Mantle said " My opinions are the same as Casey's" a congressman replied: " Thank you, Mr. Mantle. Would you be so good as to explain what Casey's opinions are?"

[helf35]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

Totally agree.

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

Uh, HELLOOOO!! Indians fan here, I wish I'd seen a trophy hoisted 26 years ago.

My oversight. I commiserate with you earlywynnfan.

But at least your team has played in TWO more recently than my Dodgers. Just saying. But yeah, I hear ya. It sucks.

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

And then he finished with four 10th place finishes with the Mets. So call me crazy but I think Mantle, Berra, Ford and that bunch had something to do with Stengel being in the Hall as a manager.

BINGO.

This is exactly my point. You can put together SUCH a good team, that it's bound to win. MANY championships. It's the manager's job to just not get in the way of the winning when that happens. Other times, the team needs a strong leader to navigate them through a tough run. The managers that have that ability usually carry their teams.

Donnie throws marbles under the Dodgers feet. Clayton may never be able to get up from the mat after this post season, wearing TWO Don Mattingly play-off losses around his neck for life. Poor Kersh, he pitched two gems, and lost them both because he was asked to be super human, to not be susceptible to elements, to have an endless pitch count. It's lead by observation, react after disaster, and explain losses via "damage control" in post game interviews.

But walk away laughing because you got a three year extension after losing to the Cardinals last year. What ever happened to earning it?

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

But Don wouldn't know what to do with it.

[Sportskansascity]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

You can't blame everything on the manager. A big league manager should not have to motivate grown men to win. Look at all of the teams who made it to the ALCS and NLCS. Each team have multiple leaders

Royals: james shields, Salvy perez, Alex Gordon, billy butler, Raul Ibanez
Cardinals: wainwright, yadier Molina, Matt Adams
Orioles: Adam jones, markakis, Cruz (weiters and machado were both hurt)
Giants: bumgardner, posey, pence, Sandoval, Hudson

You have to have great veteran leadership on a team and that's what the Dodgers lack. They have all of the talent in the world but besides kershaw there's no one who leads and brings people together. I'm sorry a manager shouldn't have to do that. Someone in the locker room needs to step up.

I am not attacking you just arguing your view. I'm a royals fan (grew up and live in KC) so I know what it's like to second guess managers lol

[jbsportstuff]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

If I was Don Mattingly, I would have issue a restraining order. WOW.

[rdeversole]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

If I was a Moderator,, I would really consider the necessity of this user (ShaimOnYou) and his contributions or lack thereof to this forum.

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

If I was a Moderator,, I would really consider the necessity of this user (ShaimOnYou) and his contributions or lack thereof to this forum.

How poignant.

So you have a problem with "General Sports Discussion" and a little humor?

Many of you members seem to be so uptight here. Why is that?

rdeversole, how would you feel if you found out I've forgotten more about the sports memorabilia hobby than you've even known? How can you make such a silly comment when you don't even know me?

[chisox1967]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

Unsure if this is relevant; but let's take a look at the Atlanta Braves from 1991 to 2005.

There will likely be a total of FIVE Hall of Famers from those Braves' teams:
Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Chipper Jones, Bobby Cox and John Smoltz.

The Braves went to the playoff 14 times during 1991 - 2005.
The Braves went to the World Series 5 times during those years.
The Braves won only 1 World Series Title during that time.

And, Bobby Cox is a HOF'er .............

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

You can't blame everything on the manager. A big league manager should not have to motivate grown men to win. Look at all of the teams who made it to the ALCS and NLCS. Each team have multiple leaders

Royals: james shields, Salvy perez, Alex Gordon, billy butler, Raul Ibanez
Cardinals: wainwright, yadier Molina, Matt Adams
Orioles: Adam jones, markakis, Cruz (weiters and machado were both hurt)
Giants: bumgardner, posey, pence, Sandoval, Hudson

You have to have great veteran leadership on a team and that's what the Dodgers lack. They have all of the talent in the world but besides kershaw there's no one who leads and brings people together. I'm sorry a manager shouldn't have to do that. Someone in the locker room needs to step up.

I am not attacking you just arguing your view. I'm a royals fan (grew up and live in KC) so I know what it's like to second guess managers lol

Sportskansascity,

Your comments are very welcome and I appreciate them.

I understand where you're coming from, and to a point I totally agree that a team should have a strong leader ON THE TEAM. But who would that be if there isn't a clear cut player stepping forward in a group of superstars?

The manager. After all, isn't he the one in charge? He needs to step up and motivate. If there is nothing to "motivation", then why all these great scenes in sports movies? Why was Jim Belushi's speech in "Animal House" so popular? Why are there all these people making a living as motivational speakers? Chris Farley's "motivational speaker" on Saturday night live stands as one of their all-time best skit themes. Motivation is important, even to guys who shouldn't need any. If done properly (see "Tommy Lasorda"), it can bond a group of egos together for a common goal.

I was thinking about this very subject earlier in the season, and the two obvious choices (besides Kershaw) to me would have been Matt Kemp or Adrian Gonzales. I gave the nod to the ladder because Kemp still had something to prove coming off two seasons of devastating injuries.

I actually felt the Dodgers NEEDED to name a captain for the very reason you mention. The team NEEDED a leader, and for me Adrian was the logical choice. He is bi-lingual, the teams 3rd of 4th (or 5th) hitter (depending on Mattingly's menstrual cycle) and was the RBI leader of the team (and ultimately as it turned out, MLB).

But it didn't happen. And guess who I blame for that?

I mean, does ANYTHING that should happen ever materialize on this ballclub? DOH!

NOPE. Instead, we get THIS:

[ShaimOnYou]

Re: Don Mattingly's disgrace

Unsure if this is relevant; but let's take a look at the Atlanta Braves from 1991 to 2005.

There will likely be a total of FIVE Hall of Famers from those Braves' teams:
Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Chipper Jones, Bobby Cox and John Smoltz.

The Braves went to the playoff 14 times during 1991 - 2005.
The Braves went to the World Series 5 times during those years.
The Braves won only 1 World Series Title during that time.

And, Bobby Cox is a HOF'er .............

chisox1967,

All baseball fans agree, the Atlanta run was incredible, but in the end they underachieved having only won one World Series during the "great run". But they did it with superb pitching. NOt gazillions of dollars with star position players (even though they had their share of great ones, Chipper being a certain HOF).

They also did it without spending the kind of money the Dodgers laid out, and they didn't have the expectations the Dodger ownership do.

This is why I am pouring out my soul as a Dodger fan here. I want to support ownership by letting them know, on a PUBLIC FORUM, that we Dodger fans (yes, I speak for many) just don't believe Mattingly is the man for this job. Sweet GEEZUZ, all one has to do is look at the two-year running play-off debacle he's performed and it doesn't take long to realize all we can expect is more of the same.

At the end of the day, look at your own argument. Yes, you only won ONE championship in all those years.

But you MADE IT to 5 WORLD SERIES. That's an accomplishment in and of itself.