MLB/team shilling?

[danesei@yahoo.com]

Im surprised so many on here think that any shill bidding anywhere is ok because there is a reserve. That makes zero sense. Also just because an auction may say in small print that they may do it does that make it ok. Its like cheating on your taxes and writing on the 1040 in small print "I cheated"

Not exactly. According to the UCC, it's explicitly stated that auction houses can bid on their own items, so long as they disclose it in advance. As for the reserve concern, I don't understand why anyone cares what price an auction ends at when the reserve isn't met. I think that's why I personally don't care. It's like those people who put items for sale on eBay with $100k reserves, simply because they never intend to sell and want to advertise their own stores. Since a transaction never occurred, whatever price the item didn't go for is somewhat irrelevant, if not entirely irrelevant.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

To remove any further confusion, here is the actual language of the current version of the UCC, as it applies to auctions:

Uniform Commercial Code › U.C.C. - ARTICLE 2 - SALES (2002) › PART 3. GENERAL OBLIGATION AND CONSTRUCTION OF CONTRACT
§ 2-328. Sale by Auction.
(1) In a sale by auction if goods are put up in lots each lot is the subject of a separate sale.

(2) A sale by auction is complete when the auctioneer so announces by the fall of the hammer or in other customary manner. Where a bid is made while the hammer is falling in acceptance of a prior bid the auctioneer may in his discretion reopen the bidding or declare the goods sold under the bid on which the hammer was falling.

(3) Such a sale is with reserve unless the goods are in explicit terms put up without reserve. In an auction with reserve the auctioneer may withdraw the goods at any time until he announces completion of the sale. In an auction without reserve, after the auctioneer calls for bids on an article or lot, that article or lot cannot be withdrawn unless no bid is made within a reasonable time. In either case a bidder may retract his bid until the auctioneer's announcement of completion of the sale, but a bidder's retraction does not revive any previous bid.

(4) If the auctioneer knowingly receives a bid on the seller's behalf or the seller makes or procures such a bid, and notice has not been given that liberty for such bidding is reserved, the buyer may at his option avoid the sale or take the goods at the price of the last good faith bid prior to the completion of the sale. This subsection shall not apply to any bid at a forced sale.

So, even in the event where the auction didn't disclose the right to bid, thereby enacting (4), recourse only exists to the buyer. If the reserve is never met, there's no buyer to seek recourse. This is why I keep saying it's pointless to talk about "shill" bidding in reserve price auctions where the reserve price is unmet.

[sherbal15]

...This is why I keep saying it's pointless to talk about "shill" bidding in reserve price auctions where the reserve price is unmet.

The reserves are consistently getting met. Check the history of "recently closed items" on the team page. Go to the recently closed/ended auctions where reserves are met. See whose name appears throughout (cardsgurl16) so there is no confusion).

What idiot would bid on any item where the seller is allowed to bid on their own item? If you have a list of auction houses that disclose this info please forward it on. That might actually be useful information.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

What idiot would bid on any item where the seller is allowed to bid on their own item? If you have a list of auction houses that disclose this info please forward it on. That might actually be useful information.

I used to feel the same way, but I found when dealing with rare coins, sometimes you have to deal with auctions that allow that, or you just never get the coins you want.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

The items are shilled to the point where the next bid triggers the reserve price. The items are getting sold at an artificial price

The reserves are consistently getting met. Check the history of "recently closed items" on the team page. Go to the recently closed/ended auctions where reserves are met. See whose name appears throughout (cardsgurl16) so there is no confusion).

You're the one who introduced the question of supposed shills bidding up to the reserve, but not triggering it. In the scenario you originally were complaining about, since no sale was affected, there would be no recourse against the seller. (4) indicates that the winning bidder, if they can prove the seller shill bid, would be given the option of purchasing at the price created by the last legitimate bid or giving up the item. If your supposed shills only bid up to below the reserve, then it's irrelevant. The buyer would need to prove that the highest losing bid was a shill bid in order for the UCC to be considered.

[BVC]

I have spoke with MLB and they want to look into this issue. Please provide me all user names you suspect of schill bidding, I will report to them and let you know the outcome.

Thanks

Based on my experiences bidding on Nationals items in MLB auctions, I didn't think the MLB people really cared, so this is at least encouraging news.

The impression I get, based on both NFL and MLB auctions, and individual team auctions, is that most of those involved think we are a bunch of idiots who are going to spend our money on things we want, regardless of shilling and regardless of whether or not the items are even legit. What evidence have we provided to make them think otherwise?