Barry Bonds - It's Not My Fault, It's Always Someone Else's

[sammy]

http://sports.aol.com/mlb/story/_a/b...11025409990001

[Yankwood]

24% told me all I needed to hear. These voters are not about to diminish what Aaron and Maris did by letting the likes of McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro and yes, even Bonds, into the Hall and honoring them when they knew they were cheating. Every intelligent form of life should know the rules of life by now. One of them is, if you cheat, you may get caught. If you get caught, suffer the consequences. That's what is happening right now. Why all the fuss and why all the tears for these guys? They cheated, they got caught and life goes on.

[staindsox]

Yankwood, you're on a roll. I absolutely agree. They knew the rules, they cheated, and have to deal with the consequences. More and more of the old timers are getting angry. Even Harmon Killebrew, who is as low key as they come, made a few comments showing his frustration on the steroid issue. These guys feel their records are being stolen by cheaters. If anyone is a victim, I would say it is them.

[hblakewolf]

Yankwood-

McGwire used Andro and admitted it. I'm not aware of a single positive test ever being produced that implicates big MAC of using Steroids. Until I see some type of substantiated documented proof, he's still one of the best who has ever played the game-period!

On a related topic, Phil Niekro admitted that he "cheated" every time he pitched, yet he is in the Hall of Fame. Here is a guy who admitted he cheated, and is in? McGwire admitted NOTHING, however, has HOF #'s and is excluded?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Seeking McGwire game used equipment, especially a Cardinals pre-game/BP jersey, 1998 home and road pants and batting helmet.

[Yankwood]

If a cop pulls me over and I'm drunk so I refuse the breathalizer, do you think the cops and the judge and the DA say, "Damn, he got away". Don't waste your time worrying about these guys. They aren't worth it. If someone thinks Big Mac is innocent, not only must he or she be blind but deaf as well, regarding his pitiful performance before congress.

This subject about guilt and innocence has been beaten to death but I can not hide my head in the sand on this one.

Also if the cop pulls me over for speeding, I can't say, "What about Charlie? He was speeding down this same street 20 years ago and nobody gave him a speeding ticket. How come I'm getting one?"
I can't do anything about what happened then but why does that mean we all become deaf and blind now?

Again, and it can't be any simpler, IF YOU CHEAT, YOU MAY GET CAUGHT. WHEN AND IF IT HAPPENS, JUST SHUT UP AND SUFFER THE PENALTY. This penalty will be a doozie but it's a good message for kids. Letting them all go scott free, is not.

[hblakewolf]

Yankwood-
We'll fill this thread up pretty quickly if we continue down this path. No doubt, we agree to disagree.

Until I see some type of substantiated hard proof, MAC is being used as the whipping post for all Steroid users.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[sylbry]

If a cop pulls me over and I'm drunk so I refuse the breathalizer, do you think the cops and the judge and the DA say, "Damn, he got away". Don't waste your time worrying about these guys. They aren't worth it. If someone thinks Big Mac is innocent, not only must he or she be blind but deaf as well, regarding his pitiful performance before congress.

This subject about guilt and innocence has been beaten to death but I can not hide my head in the sand on this one.

Also if the cop pulls me over for speeding, I can't say, "What about Charlie? He was speeding down this same street 20 years ago and nobody gave him a speeding ticket. How come I'm getting one?"
I can't do anything about what happened then but why does that mean we all become deaf and blind now?

Again, and it can't be any simpler, IF YOU CHEAT, YOU MAY GET CAUGHT. WHEN AND IF IT HAPPENS, JUST SHUT UP AND SUFFER THE PENALTY. This penalty will be a doozie but it's a good message for kids. Letting them all go scott free, is not.

You forgot one.

How about Charlie gets pulled over for doing 100mph over the limit and get's thrown in jail. He claims he should only get a $100 ticket like his friend Joe, who got a ticket for doing 10mph over the limit, because afterall they were both simply speeding.

[suave1477]

Yankwood-

McGwire used Andro and admitted it. I'm not aware of a single positive test ever being produced that implicates big MAC of using Steroids. Until I see some type of substantiated documented proof, he's still one of the best who has ever played the game-period!

On a related topic, Phil Niekro admitted that he "cheated" every time he pitched, yet he is in the Hall of Fame. Here is a guy who admitted he cheated, and is in? McGwire admitted NOTHING, however, has HOF #'s and is excluded?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Seeking McGwire game used equipment, especially a Cardinals pre-game/BP jersey, 1998 home and road pants and batting helmet.

1) Howard, as we may not see the direct proof through the Media of Mac using Roids. A player I know who had played with Mac had told me Mac used Roids.

2) To your next comment - Think about what you just said. Neikro admitted cheating and he was allowed in the Hall. Mac doesn't admit it and even though he has high numbers and he is not allowed in.

I think you answered yourself on that one!!!

I beleive it is Human Nature to forgive, and forget when someone can admit they were wrong.

REMEMBER JASON GIAMBI - he was the big Roids scandal of the Yankees people were ripping him a new on left and right for the whole season, he comes out never actually saying he took the roids but he came out apologizing and all of a sudden its like it never happend. Over night everyone completely forgets.

[PK]

[quote=hblakewolf;30195]Yankwood-

McGwire used Andro and admitted it. I'm not aware of a single positive test ever being produced that implicates big MAC of using Steroids. Until I see some type of substantiated documented proof, he's still one of the best who has ever played the game-period!

Howard Wolf

Best ever? Please. He did one thing well, hit home runs. 7th all time in HR and and hit one every 10.6 times he was at bat. Other then that what?? Not too much. IF, he gets elected he would have one of the lowets batting averages ever(.263), has only 1,626 hits(would be very low on list), played average defense at first base with 1 gold glove, 12 CAREER stolen bases, sturck out more then 25% of the time he stepped to the plate 1,596 SO to 6,187 AB and was never an MVP.

He admitted to Andro and another over the counter drug that I cannot remember and at the item was legal in baseball and not tested for so he does get a pass there, but where there is smoke there is always fire. Look at how much his body changed during and then after his career ended. Something sure let all the air our of him because he looks nothing like he did when he played except for all the pock marks on his sandpaper face. I know what I saw when he went in frort of Congress and he was a deer in headlights with something to hide. As I heard someone say, only Mobsters go in front of Congress or a jury and pleed the 5th. Or not there to "talk about the past"

[JimCaravello]

Sorry Howard - McGwire is no HOFer..........and his not answering questions shows the spineless - gutless person he really is. I wouldn't want to talk about my past if I had to lie to cover up mistakes...........

Don Mattingly will never make the HOF and McGwire doesn't even come close to Mattingly relative to offense - defense ( Mattingly had 9 gold gloves ) - being a team player and leader - and attitude on and off the field.....Mattingly won a MVP and a batting title and he should have won the MVP in 1986 ( sorry Clemens fans ). Yeah - he hit more HRs than Donnie did - but too much emphasis is placed on HRs by fans and the media.

McGwire was Dave Kingman on steroids - that's all he was..................and we know Kingman is never getting in.............

We'll disagree for sure - but he wasn't even near one of the best players ( all around ) while he played and definitely not in the history of the game........

jim