Pete Rose and HOF

[3arod13]

Chronic gambling is an addiction, a disease similar to alcoholism. It should be looked at as a disease that has gone untreated rather than an intentional disobedience to the rules. The Black Sox gambling was intentional and not an addiction. Steroid use is intentional and not an addiction.

"Steroid use is intentional and not an addiction" - Seriously? Let me try one - Food is intentional and not an addiction. And another one - smoking is intentional and not an addition.

Most things are intentional and by choice, and then you get hook!

[3arod13]

"Steroid use is intentional and not an addiction" - Seriously? Let me try one - Food is intentional and not an addiction. And another one - smoking is intentional and not an addition.

Most things are intentional and by choice, and then you get hook!

Even a better one - Memorabilia collecting is a choice and not an addition.

Again, most things are intentional and by choice, and then you get hooked.

[coxfan]

Danesei makes an excellent point. Developing better alternatives to harmful habits, and learning to enjoy those alternatives, is a major tool in ridding oneself of the bad habit. Benjamin Franklin argued in many ways that the secret to virtuous behavior is simply to practice the good behavior a few days until it starts to become habitual, and modern psychology would add that doing so helps extinguish the competing habits.

in 1983 I found I had type two diabetes with bad glucose tolerance scores, but I had a great doctor who told me to lose weight to see if that helped. After losing twenty pounds, I surprised both him and me by having a dramatic improvement in my glucose tolerance; so much that I didn't need even oral meds until about 2009. And I still have no clinical symptoms of diabetes ( eg no eye or leg problems, etc.) thanks to the fact that I've kept my weight low for 32 years.

But dieting isn't easy unless one develops alternative healthy foods, and learns to like them. My mother, a successful weight-watcher,taught me a simple secret: Black coffee, with artificial sweetener, tricks the taste buds and tummy into thinking you've had a nice dessert, but with no calories. And I Genuinely love rice cakes , and many other examples of developing alternatives and learning to like them. The same idea applies to addressing any harmful habit.

I'm reminded of an anecdote from an MLB game I read somewhere. Two fans ( I call them A and B) placed a small bet on the size of the crowd at a game. A said it was between eighteen and twenty thousand, but B said it was much less. When the attendance was announced as 12,000, both fans claimed the bet. A said that 12,000 is between eighteen and twenty thousand!

[sorklora]

I agree with the statements above about the seriousness of gambling. And it's clear Rose thumbed his nose at baseball for years. And for most of this time I've agreed with those who said he shouldn't be in the HOF. The thing that has made me question this now is that, apart from the gambling, and that is a big issue, he is a HOF player. I think inducting him in the HOF while keeping the ban from baseball might be a fair compromise. The occupation of most baseball players is baseball. If a player is found to be betting then he is gone and his career is over. That would be the same for the lowest paid rookie or the highest paid superstar. And many players have positions with teams as coaches, scouts, etc after they retire which they couldn't have if found guilty of gambling on the game. So the threat and punishment are there. The vast majority of players, however, will never be HOF candidates. So banishment from the HOF isn't the thing that will deter most of them from gambling. So you can continue to punish Rose, as he should be, and ban him from baseball while putting him in the HOF.

The HOF will never vote in a banned player and it will be up to the Commish to reinstate him and THEN the HOF can decide whether to even put him on their ballots and give him a chance.

As a huge Pete Rose fan, he more than deserves to be in and will eventually, no doubt. I just hope it's before he passes so he can enjoy it.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

The All Time Hits leader should be in the Hall of Fame as a player.

I agree. He should. Unfortunately, for Pete Rose and many fans of baseball, Pete got himself banned from the game. His choice, and his choice alone, are what keeps the ATHL out of Cooperstown.

The HOF will never vote in a banned player and it will be up to the Commish to reinstate him and THEN the HOF can decide whether to even put him on their ballots and give him a chance.

As a huge Pete Rose fan, he more than deserves to be in and will eventually, no doubt. I just hope it's before he passes so he can enjoy it.

I doubt Rose will be elected to the HOF unless one of two decisions are made:

1) The National Baseball Hall of Fame & Museum Board of Directors reverses its ruling that only persons eligible to be a part of baseball may be elected;

OR

2) MLB's commissioner, MLBPA, and the MLB Board of Governors (owners) agree that gambling on baseball is no longer an offense that leads to one-year suspension (for betting on baseball games you can't affect the outcome of) or permanent ineligibility (for betting one baseball games you can affect the outcome of).

I don't see either of these decisions being rendered within Pete Rose's lifetime. I could only see these outcomes in some parallel Back to the Future, Part II world driven entirely by gambling.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

I doubt this changes anyone's mind, but it was reported today that there is evidence from a 1989 Postal Inspection that Rose did, in fact, bet on baseball as a player:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...ll-player-1986

[Jim65]

I doubt this changes anyone's mind, but it was reported today that there is evidence from a 1989 Postal Inspection that Rose did, in fact, bet on baseball as a player:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...ll-player-1986

Just reinforces the point that Pete is a habitual liar, he was quoted as little as 1 month ago saying he never bet as a player.

I really hope this is the final nail in his coffin.

[anatfan09]

Here's an article out of Rolling Stone I just read on the topic:
http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/f...ances-20150622
Obviously no one will ever argue that as a player he's not HOF worthy. This article paints him as someone who's just plain stupid and will never learn. He clearly has a few character flaws to say the least. I'm sure by some standards he was a lousy husband, father and had a horrible relationship with uncle Sam. None of that makes someone ineligible for the HOF.
Behaving like a complete degenerate, gambling on baseball before, during and after the games. Both as a player & manager.... that does make you ineligible and always will.
He's not completely stupid though. He'll be selling "I'm sorry I bet on the Reds" & "I always bet on the Reds to win" inscribed memorabilia until he dies.

[cjclong]

I started this thread with the idea that I had perhaps changed my mind about Rose and that a reasonable compromise would be that he continue to be banned from MLB but allowed in the HOF. I don't know if the new revelations will doom whatever chance he had, but with his habitual lying he might as well be campaigning against himself. The risk of players of umpires throwing a game is too great for baseball to allow gambling and it is made plain to every player when they enter the majors and what the penalty will be. Fans will show some tolerance for cheating to win, spitballs, faked catches, steroids, but they would not tolerate a player or players throwing a game. I'm sure there are plenty of jerks in the HOF. But there is a major difference in hanging around bookies or gangsters and betting yourself. That's why he is out of baseball.

[Mark17]

The ESPN article concludes with:

"The implications for baseball are terrible. [The mob] had a mortgage on Pete while he was a player and manager."

For anyone who seriously thinks Pete should be in the Hall Of FAME, I have a simple question: Besides murdering people, what could Pete Rose have done to baseball that would've been WORSE than what he did?