How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

[bgold]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

Guys like Bernie and Andy are enshrined because all of the kids who watched them play are now professionals/married and will come out to the stadium with THEIR kids and spend $$$. The Yankees aren't drawing as well as they have in the past (even on the road) and enshrining someone like Guidry (however deserving), does nothing for their bottom line.

It's a shame that Monument Park and retired numbers have been reduced to a marketing ploy.

At the end of the day, it's a business. We all love sports, but this is an industry that is driven by profit, not the "right thing".

And speaking of the right thing, the fact that the Mets only retire HOF players makes me sick. Handing out Keith's #17 (for example) to anyone with a pair of cleats is an injustice to his time as a Met.

So there! I make no sense and am happy to play both sides.

Cheers

[coxfan]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

I've felt for a long time that teams in general should honor names and numbers through plaques, etc. but not retire numbers. The system's front-loaded, in that later players may be less likely in time to get their numbers retired, because the team's running short of numbers! That problem has actually occurred with some college football teams. Recently the ESPN baseball commentators were half-jokingly suggest that the Yankees might have to go to square roots, Pi, fractions, etc. for future numbers.

a couple of years ago in a similar thread,I pointed out an historical analogy. After the Romans renamed July and August for Julius Carsar and Augustus Caesar, they faced an awkward dilemma: they had to offer the next month to the next emperor. Fortunately Tiberius refused, saying they'd run out of months before they'd run out of emperors! So September through December were left unchanged. ( Source: Will Durant's volume " Caesar and Christ")

That historical analogy points out an additional problem: Once standards are lowered for anyone, it becomes awkward to raise them again in future.

[KGoldin]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

Last two posts hit my thoughts on the head
Standards being lowered to appeal to a younger audience or for marketing hurts the significance of the achievement
and I'm serious
At this rate they will have to go to triple digits on uniforms

[Buccaneer Madden]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

To me the Yankees can do whatever they want. If the Mariners wanted to retire Jay Buhner or Edgar Martinez's numbers that would be fine with me and neither of them are going to the HOF but they meant a LOT to the team and the city.

[gingi79]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

The Yankees are going to have 21 numbers retired for 23 players. (Mo and Robinson #42 and Dickey and Berra #8) Just to compare, the "Yanks of the NHL", the Montreal Canadiens have only 14 numbers retired.

Also the other teams with a double digit number of retired numbers in MLB are the Giants and Dodgers with only 10 each!

My only two thoughts are that they did win 25 titles in their first 100 seasons (27 total now) Conversely, people seem to forget how many Yankee greats were cherry picked off of other, smaller market teams.

[metsbats]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

Didn't they put a plaque up too for Nelson Mandela?

http://m.yankees.mlb.com/news/article/64505028/

That's actually true

(was going to delete this post but saw this article)

[metsbats]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

http://m.yankees.mlb.com/news/article/64505028/

That's actually true

(was going to delete this post but saw this article)

Personally don't think Williams, Ped-it, or Posada should have a plaque in Monument Park and it should be reserved for the all time greats like Mantle, Dimaggio, Berra, Jeter, and Rivera. It cheapens the accomplishments of these all time greats. Plaques and statues should be reserved for HOF-ers IMHO. I think David and Ben hit it on the head: these plaques will help sell more tickets in the future. Typical Yanke$$ marketing ploy.

[Masimen]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

The Yankees are going to have 21 numbers retired for 23 players. (Mo and Robinson #42 and Dickey and Berra #8) Just to compare, the "Yanks of the NHL", the Montreal Canadiens have only 14 numbers retired.

Also the other teams with a double digit number of retired numbers in MLB are the Giants and Dodgers with only 10 each!

My only two thoughts are that they did win 25 titles in their first 100 seasons (27 total now) Conversely, people seem to forget how many Yankee greats were cherry picked off of other, smaller market teams.

Gingi, how many Yankee greats were cherry picked? Of all the retired Yankee numbers you have 1 that was signed as a free agent (Jackson), 1 that was purchased (Ruth) and 1 that was acquired in a trade (Maris). The rest are all guys that came to the big leagues with the Yankees. So if you kick the 2 that are strictly in as managers and include the 2 that will be retired later this year that leaves you with 19 players and of those 19 there are 2 you could say were bought. It's fine to hate a team but the argument that their greats were cherry picked does not fly.

[Roady]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

http://m.yankees.mlb.com/news/article/64505028/

That's actually true

(was going to delete this post but saw this article)

I appreciate you leaving the post up. Wish you had left it the way I worded it though. That part you deleted was true too.

[BRONXBOMBERS1]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

Hi Guys!! ok Look grant it they were great players and I am a huge Yankees fan!! But how do you not retire Paul O'Neill #21 the number is not used among the up coming Yankee players!! but no one can wear it as well it was taken out of circulation from what I read the last player that attempted to wear it was approached by both Jeter and Mo and said its not worth the aggravation now also here is a player that played hurt!! gave it his all!! No PEDS!! and was named by the boss The Warrior!!!
Seriously next year I would retire his number 21 then Jeter number 2
So that from beginning to end the Yankees retired numbers was started with a captain Gehrig number 4 and ends with another captain Jeters number 2
I'm surprised that the number 21 is not retired throughout all of baseball like Jackie Robinson #42 after all Roberto Clemente was the first recognized Latino to break into the majors why not!! Oh besides that's why Paul O'Neill wore 21 after Clemente
One more quick note Google Paul O'Neill there is a photo of him as a boy at a Reds vs Pirates game in the photo in the outfield is Roberto Clemente how surreal is that one that in years to come not only you would wear 21 in the majors but play right field as well cool true facts!!

[Chris78]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

Every year the Phillies induct someone into the Wall of Fame, which has a plaque like the Yankees. This year, Pat Burrell, was the inductee. Some Phillies fans had mentioned that he was not worthy of induction to this, which has similarities to this topic.

I personally believe that Pettitte, Posada, and Bernie Williams are all worthy of the Wall of Fame idea (they probably were all better than Pat Burrell), but having their numbers retired is going to far. Maybe the Yankees need to rethink the retiring of numbers and focus on this approach instead. Not sure if any of the earlier comments mentioned this idea or not.

[gingi79]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

You are correct Steve, I misspoke in my final comment about the Yanks history of cherry picking players from other teams. I was wrong in that assertion and had my facts wrong. Sorry about that.

What I meant to say was that from the days prior to Babe Ruth until free agency and the MLB Draft (instituted to give teams parity), players chose which ball club to sign with. The best players signed with the best teams. The Yanks have always been winners and therefore signed the best talent.

Like you said, Maris was traded for, Ruth was purchased and Reggie was a FA. In the age where players picked their teams, Gehrig, Mantle, Berra, Ford, Dickey, DiMaggio, Rizzuto, et al chose to be Yankees because they wanted to continue to win.

[coxfan]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

MLB history has never provided a level playing field. The Red Sox secretly shopped around Ruth, and the Yankees' huge bid was made to outdo everyone else. MLB in general delayed expansion and diversification of cities, partly because small-market clubs had to sell ( not trade) their best prospects to balance the budget even in reserve-rule days. That was especially true of two- team cities before the 1950's, such as Boston ( Braves and Red Sox), Philadelphia (A's and Phillies) and St. Louis (Browns and Cards.)

In the 1950's, the Kansas City A's ownership had a blatant conflict of interest with the Yanks, resulting in a number of one-sided trades. At one point, three of the Yanks's eight starting position players (Maris, Clete Boyer, Lopez) were recent A's. Boyer had been traded to the Yanks In Circumvention of an understanding that he wouldn't be, by the team that traded him to the A's initially.

The Yanks always had the advantage that they could promise World Series money to new signees, at a time when the $12,000 WS winning share was double a rookie's salary.

[Swoboda4]

Re: How do you feel about the NY Yankees retiring numbers of non 'Legends' and NON HOFers?

As I watch the Dodgers last night I'm amazed how they don't retire numbers like the Yankees. Number 14 is still being used (Hodges) as they argue for him to be in the Hall of Fame.