Won an auction - now I need your opinions

[aallanson]

Without outing the auction (or the seller) I have a question for the group. So I won an auction for a game worn NFL jersey this morning. Before paying for it, I decided to do a little more due diligence. After surfing around the Web I found the original auction house auction where the seller won the jersey. When I saw the auction house photos I noticed that the jersey in the auction house listing was more soiled than the jersey in the ebay auction. Noticeably so. So I messaged the seller and asked why the stains were missing from the jersey and he told me that he washed it because it stunk. That information was not in the ebay listing. Now I can't photomatch it and I can't even point back to the original auction house listing for provenance. Now what am I supposed to do? Should I have to pay for it? I consider it vital information that was concealed and I also consider the jersey to be altered. Am I wrong? Please let me know your opinions. Thanks.

[jbean023]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

Without outing the auction (or the seller) I have a question for the group. So I won an auction for a game worn NFL jersey this morning. Before paying for it, I decided to do a little more due diligence. After surfing around the Web I found the original auction house auction where the seller won the jersey. When I saw the auction house photos I noticed that the jersey in the auction house listing was more soiled than the jersey in the ebay auction. Noticeably so. So I messaged the seller and asked why the stains were missing from the jersey and he told me that he washed it because it stunk. That information was not in the ebay listing. Now I can't photomatch it and I can't even point back to the original auction house listing for provenance. Now what am I supposed to do? Should I have to pay for it? I consider it vital information that was concealed and I also consider the jersey to be altered. Am I wrong? Please let me know your opinions. Thanks.

I wouldn't pay for the jersey and leave feedback stating that, if it stinks don't buy it or sell it if you don't have a frame, smell to strong, or place to air it out. My as well send it to get put on cards after washing it. A guy sold a game used Blackhawks jersey last week and the buyer looked the jersey over and seen a burn hole. The guy wore it to a concert previously and dropped his cig lol, $2,000 mistake.

[SBRBACK]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

Seller here. First of all, I like to keep my listings honest, and I can honestly say that my jersey is a game worn jersey as confirmed by its use, COA, and matching cert. Just because a jersey has been washed doesn't mean it has been somehow "un-used". There is no second-hand damage to the jersey like the cigarette burn in the Blackhawks jersey mentioned before... it was simply washed. Also, in the auction house's description there was no mention of it being un-washed. I was just as surprised when I initially opened the packaging to met by a wave of pungent odor. I have collected a bit of game used jerseys over the years so I know the have a smell but this one was pretty intense. Now I don't know if washing is considered taboo for this community but as a personal collector I just need some proof it was worn in a game for it have value. From what I remember, pre JoSportsCo days it was standard for jerseys to come washed, hence why the more modern game worn jerseys have more usage. Does that mean all the jerseys from 10+ years ago have no value and aren't truly game worn because they are washed?

[danesei@yahoo.com]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

Seller here. First of all, I like to keep my listings honest, and I can honestly say that my jersey is a game worn jersey as confirmed by its use, COA, and matching cert. Just because a jersey has been washed doesn't mean it has been somehow "un-used". There is no second-hand damage to the jersey like the cigarette burn in the Blackhawks jersey mentioned before... it was simply washed. Also, in the auction house's description there was no mention of it being un-washed. I was just as surprised when I initially opened the packaging to met by a wave of pungent odor. I have collected a bit of game used jerseys over the years so I know the have a smell but this one was pretty intense. Now I don't know if washing is considered taboo for this community but as a personal collector I just need some proof it was worn in a game for it have value. From what I remember, pre JoSportsCo days it was standard for jerseys to come washed, hence why the more modern game worn jerseys have more usage. Does that mean all the jerseys from 10+ years ago have no value and aren't truly game worn because they are washed?

I agree with the seller on this one. The buyer won the auction with the information available. The washing of the jersey was done before the auction. Personally, I would never wash a gamer, but I don't think it's fair to back out of winning the auction because it was washed. I've received washed and/or Febreezed gamers in the past. I was disappointed, but not enough so to return the item. The buyer should follow through with their purchase.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

Without outing the auction (or the seller) I have a question for the group. So I won an auction for a game worn NFL jersey this morning. Before paying for it, I decided to do a little more due diligence. After surfing around the Web I found the original auction house auction where the seller won the jersey. When I saw the auction house photos I noticed that the jersey in the auction house listing was more soiled than the jersey in the ebay auction. Noticeably so. So I messaged the seller and asked why the stains were missing from the jersey and he told me that he washed it because it stunk. That information was not in the ebay listing. Now I can't photomatch it and I can't even point back to the original auction house listing for provenance. Now what am I supposed to do? Should I have to pay for it? I consider it vital information that was concealed and I also consider the jersey to be altered. Am I wrong? Please let me know your opinions. Thanks.

I would actually ask the seller for a statement of provenance and the original receipt. If you can photo match the original "stained" picture, a notarized statement to the effect of "I purchased the jersey from X auction. I have held the jersey in my possession since that purchase. It was washed to remove odors, but this is the original jersey." would likely suffice. i'd have the seller take photos and include them with the statement.

That said, I think you're still obligated to purchase, since washing the jersey isn't an alteration. It's not like they added or removed letters or numbers. With a bat, I could see how washing or cleaning the bat would be altering the surface, but with jerseys... they're meant to be washed. The teams wash them.

[aallanson]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

It's a complex issue, and I appreciate all the responses so far (including the seller's response).

[Stanley]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

If you bid on it, you own it.
You should of done your research before you bid....not after

[jbean023]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

Seller here. First of all, I like to keep my listings honest, and I can honestly say that my jersey is a game worn jersey as confirmed by its use, COA, and matching cert. Just because a jersey has been washed doesn't mean it has been somehow "un-used". There is no second-hand damage to the jersey like the cigarette burn in the Blackhawks jersey mentioned before... it was simply washed. Also, in the auction house's description there was no mention of it being un-washed. I was just as surprised when I initially opened the packaging to met by a wave of pungent odor. I have collected a bit of game used jerseys over the years so I know the have a smell but this one was pretty intense. Now I don't know if washing is considered taboo for this community but as a personal collector I just need some proof it was worn in a game for it have value. From what I remember, pre JoSportsCo days it was standard for jerseys to come washed, hence why the more modern game worn jerseys have more usage. Does that mean all the jerseys from 10+ years ago have no value and aren't truly game worn because they are washed?

I wasn't comparing jerseys, I was comparing people wearing and washing jerseys. No that does not mean that the jerseys have no value, it means you altered the jersey from its original state and should of mentioned that. If you bought the jersey washed then so be it. If you altered the jersey you should of mentioned that in the eBay auction. If you were buying a game used fielding glove and I used it for a summer, is it the same value? Not even close, but it's the same glove. Still has value just not the same value. Wouldn't you want to know that I used it(altered it's original state). If you had a brand new item and got dirt on it by dropping it, wouldn't you mention that in an auction? You can compare it to any situation, describe the item to the best of your ability. You might get 10-20 collectors on here that say they wouldn't mind but the majority would want to know that the jersey is washed.

[aallanson]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

If you bid on it, you own it.
You should of done your research before you bid....not after

In all fairness, I did do research prior to bidding. I continued to do research after I won it. I assumed (and we all know what happens when we assume) that the seller didn't do anything to the jersey after he got it, when, in fact, he washed it, removing valuable marks that I could have used in the photomatching process (which is what I was doing when I discovered the changes from the original auction until now). That he washed the jersey was not included in his auction description. I wouldn't have left out that information if I was selling it. Would you have left it out?

[jbean023]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

If I have a PSA/DNA autographed bat and clean the auto off and all the ball marks, it's still the same bat? The photos don't match up from my item to the LOA anymore? Same scenario, minus the smell.

[aallanson]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

I wasn't comparing jerseys, I was comparing people wearing and washing jerseys. No that does not mean that the jerseys have no value, it means you altered the jersey from its original state and should of mentioned that. If you bought the jersey washed then so be it. If you altered the jersey you should of mentioned that in the eBay auction. If you were buying a game used fielding glove and I used it for a summer, is it the same value? Not even close, but it's the same glove. Still has value just not the same value. Wouldn't you want to know that I used it(altered it's original state). If you had a brand new item and got dirt on it by dropping it, wouldn't you mention that in an auction? You can compare it to any situation, describe the item to the best of your ability. You might get 10-20 collectors on here that say they wouldn't mind but the majority would want to know that the jersey is washed.

This. Jbean023 said it way better than I did. I am not saying that I am right, I am just saying that this is what I wanted to say and this is how I feel.

[Stanley]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

Would you have paid more with more dirt? You bid with the amount of dirt you saw on it. And you were happy.

[aallanson]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

Would you have paid more with more dirt? You bid with the amount of dirt you saw on it. And you were happy.

You are not asking the right question here. I will ask the right question and answer it for you as well. Would I have bid on it had I known it has been washed (and for sake of accuracy, I will say that this was a Buy it now/best offer listing, not an auction)? The answer to that question is no.

[aallanson]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

Would you have paid more with more dirt? You bid with the amount of dirt you saw on it. And you were happy.

Here's another question and answer: Would I have made an offer on the jersey had I known that it would be impossible to photomatch it because the second owner of the jersey washed the jersey after receiving it and didn't disclose that information on his auction when he listed it for sale? The answer is, again, no.

[Stanley]

Re: Won an auction - now I need your opinions

I understand. And feel that the seller should have a detailed description. And I feel that there was some deception. I hope it works out for you in future bidding.