Roger Maris and Hank Aaron HR champs?

[teddy406]

Roady is the only one in the world who holds to this theory. It's funny I think. BUT in regards to the inferior pitching in 1961 because of the expansion season-that has been researched and the facts show that the pitching was no better or worse than any other expansion year. There has been plenty of expansion years after 1961 and HR records were not set again in those seasons. We got to quit finding ways to discount what Maris did in 1961. The best two reasons: Maris had an unbelievable year getting the ball up in air and over the fence during his second MVP Season. 2nd-he had Mantle batting behind him so he got pitched to. I just leave it at that.
HR CHAMP MARIS

[cjclong]

I'm not knocking Maris. He hit 61 home runs and nobody else did that for over 30 years. But you partially make my point. You said the pitching was no worse than any other expansion year. BUT the pitching in expansion years is generally worse than non expansion years which gives hitters an advantage which Maris took advantage of as did several other American League hitters. Maris hit in an expansion year, he was a pull hitter in Yankee Stadium with its short right field and he hit ahead of Mantle and got good pitches to hit. And its to his credit that he took advantage of those things. My point was that if you are looking for reasons Maris hit 61 home runs that year those are legitimate reasons that Maris broke the record rather than the bogus steroid theory. Not intended to be a knock on Maris.

[Roady]

But as you stated, this is not a court of law and it is a sports collectors forum.

As far as someone accusing me of something with no proof, so what? Do you think their families care what I say? I wouldn't.

I understand some of your heroes have to remain unblemished in your eyes. Trust me, they don't need you to protect them. Their are no infallible men. We all are fallible. The sooner you see that the sooner you will see that nobody needs you to take up their cross and carry it for them. One day none of this will make any difference at all to any of us, just ask Mantle and Maris if you see them again.

I said I thought they were experimenting with steroids and said I based that on what I have observed and read. I said I have zero evidence. I didn't say I knew it and had proof.

I will say that you brought up some very good points and they should be considered. Some of them I knew but the reminder helps. I thank you for that as I can never read or learn enough of a subject I am interested in.

Always remember that none of us are as smart as we think we are. When you meet a man who claims to know everything, run away from him as fast as you can.

[Roady]

Roady is the only one in the world who holds to this theory. It's funny I think. BUT in regards to the inferior pitching in 1961 because of the expansion season-that has been researched and the facts show that the pitching was no better or worse than any other expansion year. There has been plenty of expansion years after 1961 and HR records were not set again in those seasons. We got to quit finding ways to discount what Maris did in 1961. The best two reasons: Maris had an unbelievable year getting the ball up in air and over the fence during his second MVP Season. 2nd-he had Mantle batting behind him so he got pitched to. I just leave it at that.
HR CHAMP MARIS

If you think I am the only one in the world who thinks this way you don't read very much.
But don't let that stop you from telling tall tales while demanding proof from me.

[Roady]

I stated my position and I am going to leave it there. No need for an argument over it.

I hope you guys are right and I am wrong. But I know some things you don't.

[cjclong]

If you "know some things we don't" then tell us. I'm never impressed by the old I know things I can't tell. I suspect anything you "know" won't violate any national security secrets. And yes, I am a fan of the 61 Yankees but I don't idolize athletes. They are people and many of them are flawed human beings just as most people are.

[teddy406]

So where's the evidence? I'm just hearing strange theories, that NO ONE else has ever put forth, but you. Where are the teammates and reporters and doctors from 1961 saying "We are pretty sure or know that both these guys were Roiding." Show me that instead of your area 51 theories and I'd listen. That only thing Maris was jacked up on was 3 packs of Cig's a day. Mantle alcohol.
61

[coxfan]

I remember the 1961 season well. The main thing I recall about Maris is that he adopted an upper-cut swing to create more big flies, and he got zero intentional walks thanks to Mantle.

Ford Frick's ruling that a new season HR record in 162 games would need "some distinguishing mark" was absurd, and an inexcusable bias from a man who'd worked with Ruth. Frick's ruling created confusion in the record books for years, since it would logically apply to all season and career records, not just to HR's. But Frick, who was pandering to traditionalists who'd deified Ruth, didn't care about the logic.

Ironically the new 162-game schedule, which was so criticized by traditionalists at first, has survived through many changes over the last 53 years.

[teddy406]

All true COXFAN. But one thing about the intentionial walks: Though not one intentionial walk in 1961-he was pitched around or carefully pitched to for almost 100 walks on the season. Most people don't realize this.
61

[cjclong]

Maris got a number of walks in 61 but nobody was "pitching around him" to get to Mantle and with hitters like Berra, Howard and Skowron hitting behind Mantle.