GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

[sammy]

In viewing the current Premier Auctions website, I came across a Mickey Mantle "autographed jersey".

In viewing the autograph, I had doubts that it was authentic. So I did some verification.

I wanted to let anyone interested in the Mickey Mantle "autographed" jersey currently in Premier Auctions to be aware that it is a definite forgery.

The M&N tag at the bottom was not used on M&N jerseys until 2001, and Mick died in 1995. I confirmed this with M&N and their confirmation is shown below.

This jersey has been certified by Global Authentication (GAI), and they are undisputedly wrong on this one.

If GAI is going to certify an autograph as authentic, they should make sure the autographed item was actually manufactured during the player's lifetime.

Here is the auction link.

http://www.premierauctionsonline.net/process.cfm?lID=7522


Here is the e-mail from M&N, and my inquiry.


Subj: RE: Tagging Question
Date: 2/14/2007 8:42:56 AM Central Standard Time
From: basenfeldera@mitchellandness.com
To:
CC: info@mitchellandness.com

Hey,

Thank you for your interest in Mitchell and Ness. We have been using that tag for all of our MLB throwbacks since 2001. Please feel free to contact us with any additional questions or concerns.

Thank you,


Andrew Basenfelder
Mitchell and Ness
E-Commerce
Toll Free: 866-879-6485
Direct Line: 215-279-9899
Email: basenfeldera@mitchellandness.com



From:
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 10:48 PM
To: Trademark; Info
Subject: Tagging Question

Hello,

Could you please tell me what year(s) this tag was used on your baseball jerseys?

Thank you,

[suave1477]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

Sammy I agree with what yor saying especially with the evidence you provied about the tag.

But you got to admit thats a dam good forgery especially with the Uniform # inscription, I mean even that was forged good!!! It looks just like how Mantle wrote it.

[sammy]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

I posted this exact thread in the Autograph Forum this morning. It has now been removed.

[content removed]

Being as GAI sure blows their own horn when someone may do an article or show touting their expertise, they should not be afraid to admit when they authenticated a forgery.

[content removed]

[suave1477]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

I have to back up Sammy on that one [content removed]

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

Hello Sammy,

I just put in a call to Justin to get a clarification on the situation. With that said, I did not see the original post you made but it may have been deleted if the forum rules we not followed. Here is the forum rule regarding questioning items:

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, it is expected that the poster clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, it is expected that the poster questioning an item will attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item.

Please clarify whether or not you contacted the seller and waited for a reply before posting. In addition, until a reply is given, I think it is unfair to accuse anyone of being "unethical".

Once again, I will post a reply as soon as I hear back from Justin.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

[sammy]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

Hi Chris,

The seller was notified via e-mail. Being as the auction ends tomorrow, I thought to warn potential bidders before the auction ended.

To the truth of the matter, this is not about the seller as this is a consignment item. This is about GAI authenticating a forgery.

As you can see from my factual statements above, the autograph is a forgery. This is not based on my opinion, but on the fact, confirmed by the manufacturer, that the jersey in question was not manufactured until 2001, and Mantle died in 1995.

As per the forum rule quoted above, Mr. Priddy did not inquire as to whether I followed that rule, as you did.

[content removed]

[sammy]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

The Mitchell & Ness representative who confirmed when the jersey was manufactured, based on the tagging, is show in the original posting.

His name, e-mail, and direct phone number are shown in case anyone desires to confirm what I have stated.

I will also post his e-mail confirming this information again.


Subj: RE: Tagging Question
Date: 2/14/2007 8:42:56 AM Central Standard Time
From: basenfeldera@mitchellandness.com
To:
CC: info@mitchellandness.com

Hey,

Thank you for your interest in Mitchell and Ness.

We have been using that tag for all of our MLB throwbacks since 2001.

Please feel free to contact us with any additional questions or concerns.

Thank you,

Andrew Basenfelder
Mitchell and Ness
E-Commerce
Toll Free: 866-879-6485
Direct Line: 215-279-9899
Email: basenfeldera@mitchellandness.com

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

Hello Sammy,

I just got off the phone with Justin who just spoke with Premier Auctions. It seems your email was sent to Premier this morning and Premier had not yet had the opportunity to verify the information or respond. Thus, given the claims in the post, it was deleted until a clarification could be made.

Notably, the item has been removed from the auction. When I spoke to Justin he assured me they have no intention of having collectors purchase suspect merchandise nor are they trying to conceal anything. They just needed an opportunity to evaluate your claims. As a result of the information you provided, they pulled the item to make sure it wasn't sold given the potential issues. And, once their research is completed, they will be the first to admit if they made a mistake in the authentication.

Fortunately, your research has prevented a potentially bogus item from making it to a collector. For that, I think you deserve a big "thank you". BTW, Justin mentioned he appreciated this as well.

Please feel free to let me know if you have any other questions.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

[sammy]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the update, and you and Mr. Priddy are welcome.

Glad to see the jersey was pulled, and I was able to save someone 2000 to 3000 on that forgery.

As with all things related to this "hobby", don't just depend on someone's COA, regardless of how respected that company/person's expertise may be.

All the major authenticators and auction companies in this business make mistakes, as has been pointed out numerous times on this forum.

[JRocker49]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

the problem really is watch out for mantle signed balls. if the gy could do th ejersey like that whats to stop him from buying the old bobby brown baseballs and forge those. it would be damn near impossible to tell if he is passing global.

[suave1477]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

Hello Chris,

I am a little confused about something you removed my opinion I am not trying to make a big stink about this but why would you do it?

It was an opinion of how I felt since when is that against forum rules.
It was also noted as my opinion!!!

I am just trying to understand the rules, that were not allowed to advertise yet we have a For Sale section, if someone was reprinting photos from Getty and selling them thats illegal yet half the jerseys being sold on here, were brought here by making it out the back door - so that should be illegal too, and now I learned were not allowed to have opinions.

So I am just curious where the line starts and ends??????

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

Hello Chris,

I am a little confused about something you removed my opinion I am not trying to make a big stink about this but why would you do it?

It was an opinion of how I felt since when is that against forum rules.
It was also noted as my opinion!!!

I am just trying to understand the rules, that were not allowed to advertise yet we have a For Sale section, if someone was reprinting photos from Getty and selling them that's illegal yet half the jerseys being sold on here, were brought here by making it out the back door - so that should be illegal too, and now I learned were not allowed to have opinions.

So I am just curious where the line starts and ends??????

Hello Jason,

The part of your comment that was removed involved an unsubstantiated claim regarding someone's ethics. While you are certainly entitled to your opinions, we have made it very clear that this is a not a forum where posts that have the potential to damage one's reputation and livelihood will be allowed without proof. It would be the same if someone accused you of being unethical which could damage your livelihood. Unless the claim could be substantiated, we would not allow that either.

As for your comments about Getty Images, I hope it is a clear that the unauthorized selling of a licensed product is not something we want to be liable for on our site. If you would like to facilitate such transactions and accept the liability please feel free to do so. As for the products being offered, we have no proof of any wrongdoing on the part of the sellers. If someone contacted us with proof that someone was trying to sell stolen merchandise on the site then those items would indeed be removed.

I am hope that answers your question. Please feel free to let me know if it does.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

[sammy]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

Hi Chris,

It's been eight days since you stated the jersey was pulled for further research as quoted below and here: "And, once their research is completed, they will be the first to admit if they made a mistake in the authentication."

A week should have been more then sufficient to verify my assertion, as I did it in one day.

Has GAI or Justin Priddy admitted they made a mistake in the certification of that forgery?

I have not received any e-mails concerning this, nor have I seen any mention of it on the forum boards, or on the Premier Auctions website?


As quoted in your reply:

Notably, the item has been removed from the auction. When I spoke to Justin he assured me they have no intention of having collectors purchase suspect merchandise nor are they trying to conceal anything. They just needed an opportunity to evaluate your claims. As a result of the information you provided, they pulled the item to make sure it wasn't sold given the potential issues. And, once their research is completed, they will be the first to admit if they made a mistake in the authentication.

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

Hello Sammy,

I will be attending a show this weekend in San Francisco and I believe Justin will be there representing Global Authentication. If I see him there I will get an update and pass it on via the forum.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

[David]

Re: GAI Certed Mickey Mantle Forgery

My opinion is that the jersey was removed from the auction, and that is the main objective of pointing out a fake. Would it be nice for authenticating companies to talk about their mistakes?-- Sure, but many don't do that. PSA, for example, is loathe to publicly talk about their mistakes-- and that may have something to do with what their lawyers and insurers tell them. Also there is an auction company and consignor, GAI may not feel their position is to act as PR director for the auction company that hired them.

Also note that Justin is an employee of GAI, and he may or may not have the power to speak for the company in these matters.