1977 Brett jersey

[kcrhino]

Check out this E-Bay listing for a GU 77 george Brett jersey. With a jersey of this value, wouldn't it get better action from one of the big auction houses rather than on E-Bay?
A quick glance also shows this same seller has a 1975 Johnny Bench...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ADME:B:SS:US:1

[kcrhino]

One correction....the Bench is not listed as GU...

[CollectGU]

Rudy can confirm, but that looks like a 78 tag on a 77' jersey...

[kingjammy24]

it's a little hard to tell because the end portion of "wilson" has been mutilated. i'm not sure what happened there. usually, the quickest way to tell is just by looking whether the (R) is on the top or bottom of the "n" in "wilson". in this case, you can't tell.

anyway, dave o'brien is right. it is a 1978-85 tag. you can tell from the fonts used for the size numbers. the 78-85 style tag had serifs on the size numbers. the previous style tag didn't have serifs on the numbers.

here is a tag from a 1977 wilson bluejays gamer:



the (R) issue on wilson tags is discussed here:
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ead.php?t=7511

1977 is pretty close to 1978. close enough that it might be plausible that a 1977 got a tag that was primarily seen in 1978. it depends on when the jersey was made and when the exact cusp was when wilson physically made the new tags. i don't know the cusps. jerseys can be made and sent to players throughout the course of an entire season. a jersey made just prior to spring training 1977 (for use in the 1977 season) should have a 1974-77 style tag. however, what if wilson came up with a new tag design in august 1977 and planned on using it on the new batch of jerseys it would issue at the start of the 1978 season. what if a late season order was placed in august 1977. isn't it possible that this late season order would unintentionally/inadvertantly receive the new 1978-85 style tag that would ordinarily be seen en masse in 1978? i think it's possible. it all depends on when the cusps occurred for new designs, how wilsons production schedules ran, and when exactly a particular jersey was ordered. it's possible for a small number of jerseys out there to have received new tagging in advance of when most of the teams would see it (ie: spring training) simply because late season orders coincided with wilson redesign production schedules. kim stigall once had a few 1989 mets common player gamers that had the new 1990/91 style rawlings tags. it's very rare for sure but i don't think there was anything fishy about kims jerseys. i just think that, with a 1 yr difference, it's possible that late season orders may have sometimes overlapped with a wilson redesign and therefore a small handful jerseys managed to get tags that would only be seen en masse in the following season. if your intent is to collect only "perfect 10" jerseys that have no anomalies, then on a 1977 wilson jersey i'd want a 1974-1977 style wilson tag. adhering to a "no anomalies" policy may mean that some legit jerseys slip through the cracks simply because, as we all know, jerseys don't always adhere to the "rules". on the flipside, at least you'll be able to sleep easier without wondering whether your tag doesn't match because of a legit reason or because it was doctored.

a 2 or 3 yr jersey/tag difference is different can of worms.

by the way, none of this was meant to comment on this particular brett jersey. i was just discussing possible reasons why you might see a 1978 style tag on a 1977 jersey. personally, i don't like how the tag on this brett is mutilated specifically at the portion which would help discern the date of the tag but that's neither here nor there.

rudy.

[yankees159]

Another thing that has struck me as strange about this jersey is the 77 stiching has no seperation. Look at Rudy's 77 stiching and then check out the Brett. The 77 in the Brett looks like the stitching is continuous.

[CollectGU]

The item is no longer available for sale....

[karamaxjoe]

Take a look at the Brett jersey in the latest Robert Edwards Auction. Same year as the ebay jersey although it has a Wilson tag from 73 and earlier. Funny how the same problem exists in another auction.

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...px?itemid=9369

Mike

[kingjammy24]

mike,

the REA brett has an interesting story behind it regarding the wilson tag.
according to the ad, "MEARS has made special note that the Wilson tag is appropriate for the era but is the earlier version with the pre-1973 washing instructions. It is fascinating that MEARS notes that the use of this style instruction tag is almost certainly related to the fact that the Royals had to buy an entire second order of road uniforms in 1977 as a result of being victimized by a large clubhouse burglary in Milwaukee that summer."

personally, i'm confused how it's "appropriate for the era" if it's the "pre-1973 version". to me, an appropriate tag for a 1977 jersey would be a 1974-77 tag. how is a "pre-73" tag appropriate for a 1977 jersey? unless, by their use of the "era", REA/MEARS is referring to the entire 70s as a whole. the tag is not appropriate for a 1977 jersey. if it were, then there would be no need for a special explanation.

anyway, apparently the jersey is from barry halper so i'm sure it's good. the rest of the story is interesting. somehow, a second order of uniforms in 1977 meant that wilson used pre-1974 tagging. i'm unsure what the connection is between jerseys being stolen, a late season order, and a pre-1974 tag on a 1977 jersey but MEARS feels it's all related. if you can see the connection, let me know.
personally, i'd have said that wilson just goofed and put on an old tag. if it were any old jersey, i'd stay away. however, in this case the halper provenance speaks volumes.

anyway, the really interesting to me is the tag itself. i've never seen a wilson tag quite like it. it's one to add to the file i guess. i know lon lewis knows a lot about wilson tags. maybe he can comment.

here is the 68-73 tag i'm used to seeing (left) compared to the one on the brett (right):



check out the "o" in "wilson" and the serif on the "2". crazy stuff huh.

rudy.

[yankees159]

This question is for Rudy, someone who's opinion I greatly respect. In a previous post you said "apparently the jersey is from barry halper so i'm sure it's good". ."however, in this case the halper provenance speaks volumes"

This seems to be a comment that is out of character for you. A few questions:

1. Why do you hold Barry Halper provenance in such high regard?
2. Have you ever seen common player jerseys with tagging descrepencies?

Best regards,

Todd

[staindsox]

Actually there were numerous fakes in the Halper collection (he didn't know about them either). Given the sheer size of his collection, it was bound to happen. The Hall of Fame acquired many items before the collection was put up for auction. They even did thread analysis on the jerseys, hats, etc. and there was more than one that didn't pass forensic tests.

Chris