Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

[otismalibu]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

Well, in my world the last photo from post #13 is not visible in the auction when I click on that link. The last 2 photos at the auction, show the helmet upside down.

[beantown]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

Well, in my world the last photo from post #13 is not visible in the auction when I click on that link. The last 2 photos at the auction, show the helmet upside down.

That's odd...how can that be????

[otismalibu]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

I dunno.

One of us is obviously suffering Merril Hoge type symptoms.

If you click refresh at the auction page, does anything change?

[Eric]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

They're upside down on mine too

Here's the same shot with the facemask facing the right. Clips are black here, they were clear in the other shot. Marks on the helmet were the same.

[beantown]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

I dunno.

One of us is obviously suffering Merril Hoge type symptoms.

If you click refresh at the auction page, does anything change?

Yes it does! Now I see what you see and the last picture is of the helmet upside down, but you can still see the clear facemask clips. Heritage is obviously aware of the first picture with the clear facemask clips either from me contacting them or them reading this forum. It's a shame that they switched pictures around and never responded to my questions....

[otismalibu]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

It's a shame that they switched pictures around and never responded to my questions....

A shame, but not a surprise.

[beantown]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

A response from Heritage Auctions on the Bradshaw helmet.....

Thank you for your inquiry. As any vintage helmet expert will tell you, face mask clips become incredibly brittle over time, and eventual breakage is all but assured. Such was the case with the Bradshaw helmet, and when the original black clips were broken, our consignor replaced them with clear clips. This is how we received the helmet, and how it was originally imaged for the auction. At the time of consignment, he asked if we could locate some original period black clips for the helmet, which we did. The helmet was then re-imaged with the black clips. Both images remained on our site and this seems to have caused some confusion. Rest assured that there is only one Bradshaw helmet, and that it now features the rare and proper period clips.
Just to be clear, the original Dan Marino game worn helmet face mask clips were broken as well. It was consigned with clear clips (as it is imaged in the catalog), then upon locating the proper period clips, they were exchanged. The online images (www.HA.com) feature the vintage replacement clips. Please let me know if you have any additional questions or if I can be of any further assistance.
Regards,
Jonathan Scheier

Sounds plausible too me as I have had vintage helmets and the clips do break easily....

[Eric]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

Does it mention in the item description that the clips have been replaced? That's a fairly important fact for the buyer, is it not?

Eric

[beantown]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

Does it mention in the item description that the clips have been replaced? That's a fairly important fact for the buyer, is it not?

Eric

Eric,

Although not explicit in the response, I believe this quote means, yes, the helmet has had the facemask clips replaced.... "

At the time of consignment, he asked if we could locate some original period black clips for the helmet, which we did. The helmet was then re-imaged with the black clips. Both images remained on our site and this seems to have caused some confusion. Rest assured that there is only one Bradshaw helmet, and that it now features the rare and proper period clips".

[CollectGU]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

How incredibaly

[CollectGU]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

A response from Heritage Auctions on the Bradshaw helmet.....


Sounds plausible too me as I have had vintage helmets and the clips do break easily....

It's not plausible or acceptable. Changing any piece of memorabilia, NO LONGER Makes it original, and should be disclosed the same way a resoration on a jersey is disclosed. So, the original clips on this helmet where clear which matches no known photos from that period, to black which matches photos....sad...I'm going to go out on a limb and bet Heritage was aware of all of this from the moment they were given the helmet.

Dave

[DrJ]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

I think it makes sense. Most helmet collectors know the clear clips are replacements and understand why. Probably best to mention new black ones were added since the fact they are new won't stand out in the pictures like clear ones would, but I personally don't think it's a big deal if it's not. I've had several old helmets shipped to me with colored clips and about half have broken during transit, I don't complain to the seller because they've broken when I've shipped them too. If they don't break during shipment they will within a few years if the helmet is handled at all. By the way - anyone can buy virtually any color replacements for $25 for a set of 4, but I think the buyer will be happier to receive the helmet in one piece and not have to purchase their own replacement clips and have to wait on them to be shipped and then have to install them. Just my 2 cents....

[mvandor]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

I think it makes sense. Most helmet collectors know the clear clips are replacements and understand why. Probably best to mention new black ones were added since the fact they are new won't stand out in the pictures like clear ones would, but I personally don't think it's a big deal if it's not. I've had several old helmets shipped to me with colored clips and about half have broken during transit, I don't complain to the seller because they've broken when I've shipped them too. If they don't break during shipment they will within a few years if the helmet is handled at all. By the way - anyone can buy virtually any color replacements for $25 for a set of 4, but I think the buyer will be happier to receive the helmet in one piece and not have to purchase their own replacement clips and have to wait on them to be shipped and then have to install them. Just my 2 cents....

I believe it is a question of disclosure. I too would prefer the helmet with the black clips, HOWEVER, the orig clear clips DO cast some doubt on authenticity and a lack of disclosure IS misleading the public and a concealment of vital info.

[Eric]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

I'm going to go out on a limb and bet Heritage was aware of all of this from the moment they were given the helmet.

Dave

We should deal in fact here, and not guesses. I'm not sure you can say that. You have no proof of that...
Eric

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Bradshaw Helmet -Magic Trick!

We should deal in fact here, and not guesses. I'm not sure you can say that. You have no proof of that...
Eric

I agree with Eric. We are trying to share information based on facts and not conjecture. This is especially important if such theories can create a negative opinion of an entity if accepted.

While everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions, please make sure that anything posted on the forums can be substantiated. As a reminder, we have created the following forum rules to try to ensure posts are not based on any speculation that, while maybe not intending to do so, have the potential to discredit others:

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, it is expected that the poster clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, it is expected that the poster questioning an item will attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item.

It is expected that all posts are to be created with a sincere attempt to benefit the hobby. Any posts which the Administrator deems as a personal attack or an attempt to unnecessarily discredit others will be subject to the administrative rules of the forum.

Thanks again for everyone's cooperation in this area.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier