Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

[sportscentury]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Dave,

As I began to type my response to you, Denny Esken called me again. You have said that I'm not objective (which is an unfair statement on your part, but what is new?). So, I'd like to offer the following objective & factual commentary, based on tonight's conversation with Denny:

1) It is not a battle of authenticators as to the issue of game use. No authenticator that has been solicited thus far (though you can keep on trying) has been willing to say that Ripken used the glove.

2) The glove was manufactured in 1999, which is a fact, based on the four dots and the other model characteristics. Ripken moved to a larger glove prior to the beginning of the 2000 season (and used the larger glove during the 2000 and 2001 seasons), so the only possible season that the glove could have been worn is 1999. Denny has seen a multitude of this model glove, though Ripken played only 86 games in 1999. How many of these 4-dot gloves could he have used in 86 games?

3) Denny stated that the use characteristics of your glove are "nothing" like Ripken's typical use characteristics, including "grease" in the palm and a tight web.

4) Glove experts Clevenhagen and Phillips were unable to date the glove to 1999, but rather chose "1990s." (though, to their credit, they were able to pinpoint the decade in which the glove was manufactured).

5) Denny has talked with Clevenhagen about the glove. Both agree that the substance in the palm is not oil. They both insist that it is the synthetic grease that bonds the palm of the glove to the lining to "give the glove feel."

I think you should call Clevenhagen, Denny, or Joe, and ask them point blank: "What do you think the chances are that Ripken used this glove?" Let us know the results (as it's a real mystery).

Best,
Reid

[camarokids]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Did anyone take a gander at the buyer premium !!!!

22.5%

I saw that as well . I think that is a good reason why I have never bid in an auction that has a buyers premium . Probably never will .............

[skipcareyisfat]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

I saw that as well . I think that is a good reason why I have never bid in an auction that has a buyers premium . Probably never will .............

C'mon you bunch of lilies! You're getting a rarely offered g/u (insert here), plus a Lou Lampson letter. What's to complain about?

[3arod13]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Cal is now aware of this glove. Let's hope we get his spokesperson to Post. Andrew

If this is true, I hope someone from Cal's side comes forward. I would hate to see someone pay that amount of money for this glove that still has many questions of its authenticity.

Cal...if you're out there and are aware of this matter, please come forward and solve it immediately.

Regards, Tony

[kingjammy24]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

here are some photos of cal in 1999.



given that bob and denny have spoken to each other about this glove, i'm very surprised there's no news about the entire issue of the lining. they must've discussed it right? did they agree to disagree? if so, how did that conversation go?

bob - "denny, as i said in the letter, i remember making this glove for ripken. i remember stitching it together with my bare hands".

denny - "no you didn't".

something like that? seriously, i kid. it's just very surprising that, with clevenhagen saying the lining is good and esken saying it isn't and them speaking to each other, they weren't able to resolve the issue.

anyway, maybe the lining is "wrong" and maybe it doesn't conform to ripken's typical use characteristics, however as reid fontaine said earlier "perhaps Ripken did use it briefly to try out a glove with the unusual lining." maybe it really was sent to ripken to try after trying it out and hating it, he gave it away. maybe that might explain the "tight web"? (ie: very brief use). maybe after it was given away, it was doctored up to show more use than it really had. maybe it's a perfect replica that clevenhagen himself can't tell apart from a gamer. ripken's own words don't exactly put it in a positive light.

while i agree that it'd be good for heritage to mention esken's opinion, i'm unsure about the protocol of it all. that is, they didn't solicit his opinion or pay him for it so can they still issue it? his opinion was issued for another auction house. i'm unsure if heritage can go ahead and use it for their purposes. when GFC and subsequently Historic sold that garbage "87 mcgriff" jersey, i railed on and on about it. neither of them chose to include my opinion in their ads. to quote david brent "and that's the tragedy".

rudy.

[sportscentury]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

given that bob and denny have spoken to each other about this glove, i'm very surprised there's no news about the entire issue of the lining. they must've discussed it right? did they agree to disagree? if so, how did that conversation go?

bob - "denny, as i said in the letter, i remember making this glove for ripken. i remember stitching it together with my bare hands".

denny - "no you didn't".

something like that? seriously, i kid. it's just very surprising that, with clevenhagen saying the lining is good and esken saying it isn't and them speaking to each other, they weren't able to resolve the issue.

anyway, maybe the lining is "wrong" and maybe it doesn't conform to ripken's typical use characteristics, however as reid fontaine said earlier "perhaps Ripken did use it briefly to try out a glove with the unusual lining." maybe it really was sent to ripken to try after trying it out and hating it, he gave it away. maybe that might explain the "tight web"? (ie: very brief use). maybe after it was given away, it was doctored up to show more use than it really had. maybe it's a perfect replica that clevenhagen himself can't tell apart from a gamer. ripken's own words don't exactly put it in a positive light.

Hi, Rudy -

I can offer the following, per my conversations with Denny. Denny and Bob do not disagree that Bob made the glove. Also, they do not disagree that it's a pro glove made to Cal's specifications, with the exception of the lining. Denny told me that the lining was an option that became available to the players earlier in the 1990s and that some players did not like it (including Ripken, Ozzie, and a few other stars) because it was "too soft." I did not have this information prior to my earlier post that you quoted above. I actually had planned to not post about this situation again, though I did want to explain my earlier post, since it was quoted.

As for the glove, Heritage has listed it as they fit. Dave and I disagree about many things, but I agree with him that at this point it is up to the bidder/buyer as to his comfort level with the item. As such, I intend this to be my last post on the topic.

Best,
Reid

[3arod13]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Dave and I disagree about many things, but I agree with him that at this point it is up to the bidder/buyer as to his comfort level with the item.
Best,
Reid

I would agree if all bidders are aware of this thread. Then, they could decide on bidding with their confort level.

Regards, Tony

[allstarsplus]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

I would agree if all bidders are aware of this thread. Then, they could decide on bidding with their confort level.

Regards, Tony

I wouldn't expect Heritage to alert "Potential Bidders" to read this Thread before bidding so unless they are regulars here or do their own substantial due dillegence I wouldn't expect they can bid with any comfort level.

As for the glove, Heritage has listed it as they fit. Dave and I disagree about many things, but I agree with him that at this point it is up to the bidder/buyer as to his comfort level with the item.

We will see where all this ends after the auction is over I guess.

Andrew

[mvandor]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Hi, Rudy -

I can offer the following, per my conversations with Denny. Denny and Bob do not disagree that Bob made the glove. Also, they do not disagree that it's a pro glove made to Cal's specifications, with the exception of the lining. Denny told me that the lining was an option that became available to the players earlier in the 1990s and that some players did not like it (including Ripken, Ozzie, and a few other stars) because it was "too soft." I did not have this information prior to my earlier post that you quoted above. I actually had planned to not post about this situation again, though I did want to explain my earlier post, since it was quoted.

As for the glove, Heritage has listed it as they fit. Dave and I disagree about many things, but I agree with him that at this point it is up to the bidder/buyer as to his comfort level with the item. As such, I intend this to be my last post on the topic.

Best,
Reid

It occurs to me that it is POSSIBLE given the foregoing that the glove was made for Cal, he tried it in practice, perhaps even a game or two, didn't like the lining, and dumped it quickly before it accumulated the typical characteristics. In fact, if he dumped it quickly, he might not even have memory of it. It seems possible players are often asked to try new gear and simply don't like certain pieces and either end up not using them, or only using them very briefly.

[allstarsplus]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

It occurs to me that it is POSSIBLE given the foregoing that the glove was made for Cal, he tried it in practice, perhaps even a game or two, didn't like the lining, and dumped it quickly before it accumulated the typical characteristics. In fact, if he dumped it quickly, he might not even have memory of it. It seems possible players are often asked to try new gear and simply don't like certain pieces and either end up not using them, or only using them very briefly.

MVANDOR - You can certainly come up with an infinite amount of possible scenarios such as the one you came up with.

I just don't buy into your alternate theory (highlighted above in red) of any loss of memory on this one as it would pertain to Cal. Cal has stated before that he even knows all the whereabouts of his backup gloves.

Andrew

[Carlevv]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

I'll dissagree with that one. Not knowing how good Cal's memory actually is i'd have to challenge Cal on that. Players get many gloves and will only give a few a shot. In spring training i'd have to guess that Cal gave 5 to 8 gloves a shot before choosing two for the season. Most players do this. If you are saying after using all those gloves he knows where they went i'd have to say you are reaching. Im not going to hijack this thread but i own a Cal Ripken glove. If Cal says he only had one glove stolen and only gave one away in his career then i have one of those right? No, mine isnt the one that was stolen or the one he says he gave away. This thread will live on forever because there are SO MANY people saying they are experts and remember every glove that was ever made for Cal and somehow they can say what glove Cal has ever used. Comical if you ask me.

[allstarsplus]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

In spring training i'd have to guess that Cal gave 5 to 8 gloves a shot before choosing two for the season.

Cal has been retired since 2001 and you are saying you remember his count of gloves used during Spring Training?

You have quite a memory too.

How can you justify those numbers?

Andrew

[Carlevv]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Andrew, if you read what you quoted me saying, i said if i had to GUESS Cal gave 5 to 8 gloves a shot before choosing two for the season. As far as you asking me how i can justify those numbers....... I said most players practice this. Im grouping Cal in with most of the infielders in the game. What else would you like me to explain further?

[allstarsplus]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Andrew, if you read what you quoted me saying, i said if i had to GUESS Cal gave 5 to 8 gloves a shot before choosing two for the season. As far as you asking me how i can justify those numbers....... I said most players practice this. Im grouping Cal in with most of the infielders in the game. What else would you like me to explain further?

Carl - I was making sure your "guess" wasn't based on you personally following Cal through Spring Training or your own visual observations of his locker.

I now understand your "guess" as having nothing to do with Cal, but with infielders in general. Speculating on "most" players would be acceptable if we were talking about a Brendan Harris, but Cal Ripken certainly never followed that practice.

One of my favorite articles about the new Rawlings Primo glove had a statement about Cal Ripken in there. I highlighted that portion in orange below as well as some other good portions.

I forwarded a letter from one of Cal's executive employees to Rob Steinmetz which stated this employee's opinions towards the glove. He doesn't dispute Clevenhagen's claim which bodes well to also say this is probably a "game issued" glove with a real autograph, but his personal opinion also questions the authenticity of "game use".

Carl, I am not an expert, but have read what the experts have said and none of the experts will say Cal actually used the glove. That is the issue here.

Andrew

Luxury baseball: The $400 glove

Rawlings has introduced the world's fanciest baseball glove. But can major leaguers be persuaded to use it?


By Matthew Boyle, Fortune writer
August 24 2007: 4:30 PM EDT


(Fortune Magazine) -- When Yogi Berra was a kid growing up in St. Louis, he asked his father for a baseball glove for Christmas. He got a pair of trousers instead.

Luckily for the game of baseball and for fans of malapropisms worldwide, Berra eventually got his own mitt, which he cherished. "There's nothing more personal than your own baseball glove," he wrote in the foreword to "Glove Affairs," a book by Noah Liberman.

The Primo, made of Italian leather, costs $400.

St. Louis is as good a place as any to begin this glove story, as it is the home of Rawlings, currently in its 120th year as a supplier of all manner of baseball equipment. In 1920, Rawlings introduced the first glove to feature laces between the thumb and forefinger (previous mitts were no more than padded workmen's gloves).

That glove, called the Bill Doak, began an evolutionary process that today culminates in the Rawlings Primo, the most expensive baseball glove ever made. It costs $400. Yes, $400 - that's a little over a week's pay for a typical Wal-Mart employee. (At least that employee won't be tempted to blow his wages, as you'll never find the Primo on Wal-Mart's shelves.)

Two years in development, the Primo features Italian leather hand-sewn into an advanced three-layer design that, Rawlings claims, can be broken in to suit specific positions. In a season dominated by batting achievements (Barry Bonds' record*, Alex Rodriguez's 500th homer), Rawlings hopes the Primo will reestablish its status as the preeminent glove-design house, a position that is under threat from rivals like Wilson, Mizuno, Easton and Nike (Charts, Fortune 500).

The battle for bragging rights has gotten fierce. Japanese rival Mizuno claims that its $300 Mizuno Pro with so-called 4D Technology, designed using pressure sensors attached to players' hands, is actually the "world's best ball glove."

Rawlings says that 38 percent of all Major League Baseball players are wearing its gloves this season, making them the pros' most popular. That percentage has declined in recent years, though, as competitors dangle big money in front of star players to get them to wear their gloves and to endorse kids' models. The Pittsburgh Pirates' All-Star outfielder Jason Bay, for one, defected to Easton this year.

But this is not the usual tale of celebrity endorsement. Rawlings, unlike the makers of, say, trendy cell phones, faces a unique business challenge as it attempts to get the Primo into the hands of MLB stars - and consequently on the little fingers of young players who idolize them.
The issue is not sticker shock. Parents these days think hardly anything of buying their 11-year-old Little Leaguer a glove with a three-digit pricetag, especially if he's playing more than 100 games a year across the country, as some elite traveling squads do. No, the problem is persuading big-league baseball players to part with their well-worn, perfectly broken-in gloves.

High-wattage Rawlings clients - among them Derek Jeter and A-Rod of the New York Yankees, Jose Reyes of the crosstown Mets and Albert Pujols of the St. Louis Cardinals - all have so far declined to use the Primo in games, despite its apparently superior design. San Diego Padres shortstop Khalil Greene has one in his locker but to date has not switched.

The Primo so far has found love only from the Padres' Jake Peavy, the San Francisco Giants' Barry Zito, and the Seattle Mariners' Horacio Ramirez. All of them are pitchers, who are traditionally the least attached to their gloves.

But even the fickle hurlers are not totally sold on the Primo. Peavy - whose stellar year on the mound has put him on the cusp of superstardom - asked Rawlings to apply the Primo's Italian leather to his old glove's design.

Rawlings, in other words, has come up with the most lavish glove ever but has yet to persuade any everyday players to use it. Some have grumbled that it is too heavy; others just think it's bad karma to switch.

Ted Sizemore, a former Dodger who is now Rawlings's chief liaison with MLB players, is doing his best to address this. One of his tactics is to persuade minor-league prospects, not yet set in their ways, to wear the Primo during spring training. "You get them to like the color and the feel and the weight of the glove," he says. "A few start using it, and word of mouth spreads."

But as a former player, Sizemore understands the Sisyphean nature of his task. "It's very hard to get a player to change from something he really loves," he says.

While bats break all the time and balls are a dime a dozen, the bond between a player and his mitt is akin to a marriage. Former Oakland A's and Atlanta Braves shortstop Walt Weiss's glove, aptly dubbed "the Creature" for both its look and its smell, stayed with him for more than a decade. Indeed, the attention and devotion a player showers on his glove can outweigh that shown to his spouse.

The methods and materials for breaking in a glove vary widely and over the years have included hot water, cold water, hot air, tobacco, shaving cream, spit, scissors, bats, knives and mallets, according to Liberman's book. Berra wrapped balls in the pocket of his Rawlings catcher's mitt with rubber bands, put it in a sauna, then stuck it in a clothes dryer for two days.

Some players don't care so much - Rickey Henderson once had a Rawlings salesman break in his glove for him. But as a rule, a major leaguer will keep close watch over his game glove (dubbed a "gamer," it is never used for practice). Some players hide them in secret compartments in their lockers.

Oriole Hall of Famer Cal Ripken is just one of many players who would not let anyone touch his gamer, under any circumstances.

Such an intense relationship can end badly, of course. Former St. Louis Cardinals third baseman Kenny Reitz, nicknamed "the Zamboni Machine" for his defensive prowess, once set his glove on fire in the clubhouse after making a couple of errors in a game, shouting, "You're no good anymore!"
Given such attachment between a man and his leather, the folks at Rawlings have their work cut out for them. "Innovating is cool as long as you keep in mind that current gloves are not broken," says Matt Arndt, a senior VP at Easton. "They are there for a reason."

The inspiration for the most expensive glove ever made came from a bat. So-called double-walled bats have a barrel made of two layers (think of a tube within a tube), which can flex more than a single layer and create a sort of trampoline effect.

A few years ago two Rawlings product managers were talking shop when one said, "Hey, why not multiple walls for a glove?" The idea soon became Rawlings's top development project, under the direction of R&D chief Art Chou and Denny Whiteside, the company's head designer.

The best baseball gloves come from the heart of a cow's hide - that is, along the backbone. There's less stretching there, as a cow grows mainly in its belly region. (Not coincidentally, one of Rawlings's most popular gloves is called Heart of the Hide.) About four gloves can be made from each half of a hide.

Traditional gloves consist of two main layers - the palm (outside) and the lining (inside). The Primo includes a third layer in the middle called the inner palm, which has shapes and channels cut into the material, allowing a pocket to be formed in the area that best suits each position.


As with other gloves, the Primo comes in two varieties - one for infielders and a longer, wider and deeper one for outfielders. The inner palm of an infielder's Primo is designed to enhance the scooping action used to field ground balls. The outfielder's inner palm is designed to enhance the closing action preferred for fly balls.

Each Primo takes two days to make, and Rawlings made only 3,000 this year. They are available through specialty-equipment retailers like Baseball Express in San Antonio.

But as good as the Primo claims to be, the challenge to make it a gamer persists. And the frantic pace of innovation in today's glove world could soon make the Primo a relic, like the 1920 Doak model. "To stay on top, we continually have to come up with better gloves," says Sizemore. Rawlings is looking at $200-plus weather-resistant gloves made from polymers and is working on machines that will break in gloves before they're sold.

There's little doubt that high-tech gloves will succeed - kids will love them as fiercely as their fathers loved the old Heart of the Hides. No matter how fancy they get, gloves will remain personal.

Longtime baseball executive Peter Bavasi, whose father, Buzzie, ran the Dodgers in the 1950s, says that he was once asked which Dodger great was his favorite player. Was it Duke Snider? Jackie Robinson? Nope, he said - it was Bill Antonello, an outfielder who played one season for the Dodgers in 1953, batted .163, and never made it back to the bigs.
Why Antonello?

"Because," Bavasi recalls, "when I was 11, he gave me a glove."

[Carlevv]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Well, i agree that Cal just like any other player guard their game gloves with high regard. A back up glove is way different. Thats what im saying here. The glove in question this whole time is no way a gamer or something Cal used for more than a week. And yes i group Cal in with ANY other player when it comes to back up gloves. They get attention until they arent used in BP or in any games. I didnt read that whole story you posted but working for a Major league team in the clubhouse for more than a decade leads me to believe i know what im talking about when it comes to players habits.