Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

1) The glove was made to Ripken's specifications but it is unlikely that Ripken ever saw it.

3) He rejected the glove because (a) he has seen many of these from 1999 and doesn't believe that Ripken used any of them, never mind most or all of them, and (b) it doesn't have any of the typical signs of Ripken's game use (specifically, the web is very tight, the pocket has grease and not traditional oil, and overall game use is not typical of Ripken's game used gloves).

According to Denny, he has shared all of this information with several of the parties mentioned in this thread. He asked me to post this information to clear things up, and in the interest of providing this information to GUF readers (and in the interest of doing Denny a favor, as he has been great to me and many other collectors over the years), I told him that I would oblige.

Hello Reid,

I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to post this information for collectors to consider. I think those that know Denny, myself included, view him as the leading authority on game used gloves. However, at the end of the day, people will have to make up their own minds about the item in question.

Thanks again for sharing this information. I will also say that I do believe, given Denny's proven expertise, if Denny rejected the glove, and did not think it is game used, that is pertinent information that should be disclosed to potential bidders.

Sincerely,
Chris

[sportscentury]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Chris,

I believe you're correct. Not only do Rob, you, and I know that Denny is the man, but a fellow GUF reader reminded me of this informative post by Joe Phillips himself (from the old Game Used Forum), which echoes a similar sentiment. I have provided the link so that GUF readers can verify the accuracy of what I have pasted below (and I have highlighted what I consider to be some important passages):

http://www.network54.com/Forum/379976/message/1122499840/

______________________________________
thanks for your inquiry

July 27 2005 at 5:30 PMJoe Phillips (Login glovecollector)
Response to Original Topic

My specialty of interest has been in store issued gloves and that's where most of our Glove Collector Newsletter is focused, though we do carry articles on the players and their gloves and game used gloves from time. My little glove collection is very humble. Only one gamer and that's an old coacher of Harry Craft that I lucked into. As a Reds fan I've put together a pretty decent collection of store Reds player models, plus just a lot of gloves that I like to play catch with.

I've been fortunate to have seen and handled gamer gloves from Gehrig to Griffey Jr. My information on these is very limited. I'm better with the older gloves than the more modern ones. Denny Esken is the man on the game gloves of the past 50 years. Bob Clevenhagen at Rawlings now covers a regular Q&A column on Rawlings gloves in our Newsletter and Bob will also be glad to help you out as well on Rawlings gloves. Any time you would like to see a copy of our newsletter or any of our stuff, I'll be glad to help out.

My email accompanies this post so contact me that way if you desire.

Thanks again...Joe
_____________________________________

I was happy to be reminded that Joe Phillips shares in our respect for Denny's knowledge and expertise. Chris, as always, thanks to Eric and you (and other moderators) for providing this forum for discussion.

Best,
Reid

[sportscentury]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Forum readers,

Tonight I received scans of the letters of authenticity from Bob Clevenhagen and Joe Phillips for the Ripken "game used" glove currently offerd by Heritage. These letters raise a handful of questions, but perhaps most confusing is that neither letter states that the glove is game used or game worn. In fact, neither letter makes any mention of game use or game wear. So, how is it that Heritage states in the title and listing that this was Ripken's game used glove (see the Heritage auction at http://sports.ha.com/common/view_ite...8&Lot_No=19658)?

Here are the scans of the LOAs:

[cjclong]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

If anyone had a way to contact Cal Ripken he could probably answer the question and settle the matter one way or the other. Has anyone tried?

[CollectGU]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Forum readers,

Tonight I received scans of the letters of authenticity from Bob Clevenhagen and Joe Phillips for the Ripken "game used" glove currently offerd by Heritage. These letters raise a handful of questions, but perhaps most confusing is that neither letter states that the glove is game used or game worn. In fact, neither letter makes any mention of game use or game wear. So, how is it that Heritage states in the title and listing that this was Ripken's game used glove (see the Heritage auction at http://sports.ha.com/common/view_ite...8&Lot_No=19658)?

Here are the scans of the LOAs:

Reid it shows signs of definite game use so maybe they should call it a game issued Ripken glove showing signs of game use? Is that sufficient for you? It is then up to individuals who are interested in purchasing to decide their comfort level.

Regards,
Dave

[hblakewolf]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Forum readers,

Tonight I received scans of the letters of authenticity from Bob Clevenhagen and Joe Phillips for the Ripken "game used" glove currently offerd by Heritage. These letters raise a handful of questions, but perhaps most confusing is that neither letter states that the glove is game used or game worn. In fact, neither letter makes any mention of game use or game wear. So, how is it that Heritage states in the title and listing that this was Ripken's game used glove (see the Heritage auction at http://sports.ha.com/common/view_ite...8&Lot_No=19658)?

Here are the scans of the LOAs:

Reid-
After reading both letters, I'm having a difficult time understanding a few issues:

1. Why is it that Denny Eskin can pinpoint the glove to a specific year, however, Clevenhagen and Phillips make no mention, rather, it's from the "1990's"???? Does it seem odd that the man in charge of Rawlings professional glove manufacturing can't even determine when the glove was manufactured? Rawlings gloves, including this glove, have a date code. If the year can't be determined by Clevenhagen, how much credibility can this letter, or his opinion hold? Phillips summary of Clevenhagens LOA, in my opinion, is worthless. He provides no insight to the glove, rather, just a summary of Clevenhagen's findings. As noted on another post, Phillps expertise is retail gloves, not game used pro gloves. From the information provided in his LOA, I suggest he continue his focus on the retail products.

2. Although neither LOA makes mention of it being game used by Ripken (or as Phillips notes, Ripkan), Heritage is offering it as game used? Eskin has been extremely clear that the "use characteristics" are not consistent with Ripken's game traits.

3. Is it possible to have Eskin comment on this glove via a post or an email to another GUU reader that can possibly put these various issues to rest?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[sportscentury]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Reid it shows signs of definite game use so maybe they should call it a game issued Ripken glove showing signs of game use? Is that sufficient for you? It is then up to individuals who are interested in purchasing to decide their comfort level.

Regards,
Dave

Dave,

Opinions from THREE experts have been sought (only one is truly an expert in my and many other people's opinion: Denny Esken). Esken told you and many others (myself included) point blank that it is highly unlikely that Ripken used the glove. Clevenhagen and Phillips very carefully worded their letters and clearly declined to even mention any possibility of game use. You say that the glove "shows signs of definite game use" and you are certainly entitled to your opinion (though the conflict of interest is obvious). What I am trying to understand is why Heritage is so insistent in their assertion that this is a Ripken game used glove when, despite your/their incredible efforts, there is no "expert" who has been willing to support such a claim.

Chris Ivy from Heritage is a member of Game Used Universe and I am surprised that he has not commented here. I know that he has commented on GUF in the past. Chris, can you help us to understand how, in light of all of the expert opinions, you remain so confident that the glove was used by Ripken?

Reid

[3arod13]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

If anyone had a way to contact Cal Ripken he could probably answer the question and settle the matter one way or the other. Has anyone tried?

If you all recall the issue with the Arod gloves that were purchased at a sportings good store and were questioned about their authenticity, the owner contacted the media, the yankees, etc., and the issue was addressed by many.

I believe in this case, the Baltimore Orioles should be contact about this matter and see if they can verify the authenticity through Cal Ripken Jr.

With the amount of money involved, and the glove being questioned as authentic, I don't see them not wanting to help.

This would put an end to this thread.

Regards, Tony

[hblakewolf]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

If you all recall the issue with the Arod gloves that were purchased at a sportings good store and were questioned about their authenticity, the owner contacted the media, the yankees, etc., and the issue was addressed by many.

I believe in this case, the Baltimore Orioles should be contact about this matter and see if they can verify the authenticity through Cal Ripken Jr.

With the amount of money involved, and the glove being questioned as authentic, I don't see them not wanting to help.

This would put an end to this thread.

Regards, Tony

Tony-

In a perfect world, the Orioles would be willing to assist you and may even try to get Ripken himself, involved. In this case, however, do you honestly believe the Orioles have any interest, or anything to gain by getting involved?

Denny Eskin has voiced his concern about this glove, based on his vast knowledge and experience with game used gloves, and game used Ripken gloves. Based in his rejection that Ripken used this glove, combined with issues relating to the actual materials used in the construction, it's pretty clear that this is not a glove used by the great Cal Ripken Jr.

At this point, what more could one ask to Cal, the Orioles, Clevenhagen or Eskin?

Howard wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[3arod13]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Tony-

In a perfect world, the Orioles would be willing to assist you and may even try to get Ripken himself, involved. In this case, however, do you honestly believe the Orioles have any interest, or anything to gain by getting involved?

Denny Eskin has voiced his concern about this glove, based on his vast knowledge and experience with game used gloves, and game used Ripken gloves. Based in his rejection that Ripken used this glove, combined with issues relating to the actual materials used in the construction, it's pretty clear that this is not a glove used by the great Cal Ripken Jr.

At this point, what more could one ask to Cal, the Orioles, Clevenhagen or Eskin?

Howard wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Howard,

Just curious, do you ever have anything positive to say than just pounce on people with your negative comments.

Yes, I like to believe that people are willing to help without having to gain from it.

Contacting the Orioles and getting it straight from Cal himself would be better than anyone else's opinion, no matter who they are. I have talked to Denny numerous times and am aware of his knowledge. My point was, this will continue to go on and on. With that said, coming from Cal Jr. would end this...period.

Yes, this would be a good thing to do and/or attempt.

Regards, Tony

[CollectGU]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Tony-


. Based in his rejection that Ripken used this glove, combined with issues relating to the actual materials used in the construction, it's pretty clear that this is not a glove used by the great Cal Ripken Jr.

At this point, what more could one ask to Cal, the Orioles, Clevenhagen or Eskin?

Howard wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Howard,

There are no problems or issues with the construction or lining of the glove as per the guy that made the glove, so this is an incorrect and unfair statement.

[lund6771]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

I agree with Tony that is at LEAST worth the attempt...

some of the best team contacts I ever established came about EXACTLY by this course...so why not try...what do you have to lose?

The people that really should be making this attempt are the consignor and the auction house...it seems like they will attempt to keep a closed eye from all theses facts, hoping that it wil sell and also not end up in an article in the New Yoor papers

Dave with your strong ties to AMI, can you explain why the glove was not consigned in their auction?...is it by chance that he glove was declined by Denny, so Victor didnt want to run it?..and as a result you dumped it off at the next willing auction house?

[sportscentury]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Howard,

Just curious, do you ever have anything positive to say than just pounce on people with your negative comments.

Regards, Tony

Tony,

I appreciate all of your posts, and all of the positive contributions that you've made to GUF. But I must ask: Is there really a need to make a personal attack on Howard? And to do so in such a completely baseless manner? Honestly, it's irresponsibe, if not downright silly. Do you have any idea how many people Howard has publicly helped with Phillies, Mariners, Orioles, Trailblazers, etc., etc., items on GUF? And how many times has Howard been quick to hop on here and provide good words in support of a dealer or collector (as recently as a few days ago when he praised Joe Esposito of B&E Collectibles). I understand that you are upset that Howard believes that your suggestion is unrealistic, but let's be reasonable (and civil).

As for your suggestion, I, for one, would love it if Ripken himself were to comment on this glove. However, I don't believe that this would resolve all issues (for example, the issue of how Heritage has repeatedly asserted that the glove is a Ripken game used glove in light of all of the expert opinions that do not support this claim; certainly, this issue cannot be resolved by Cal Ripken Jr., as it has nothing to do with him). But, again, I'm all for Ripken commenting on this glove (if someone actually has the know-how and power to make this happen).

It would also be helpful if Chris Ivy would comment. Again, I am surprised that he has not offered an explanation.

Best,

Reid

[hblakewolf]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Howard,

Just curious, do you ever have anything positive to say than just pounce on people with your negative comments.

Yes, I like to believe that people are willing to help without having to gain from it.

Contacting the Orioles and getting it straight from Cal himself would be better than anyone else's opinion, no matter who they are. I have talked to Denny numerous times and am aware of his knowledge. My point was, this will continue to go on and on. With that said, coming from Cal Jr. would end this...period.

Yes, this would be a good thing to do and/or attempt.

Regards, Tony

Tony-

Let me address your post:

do you ever have anything positive to say than just pounce on people with your negative comments

I make quite a few "positive" posts on this Forum, and often provide insight and assistance to fellow collectors on an array of subjects, i.e, tagging, patches, etc. I'm not sure if I "pounce" on people, rather, point out incorrect information posted in error and related.

Contacting the Orioles and getting it straight from Cal himself would be better than anyone else's opinion, no matter who they are. Yes, this would be a good thing to do and/or attempt

Tony, that's a grand idea! Since you surfaced this, please advise what success you have once you make the calls or emails to Cal and the Orioles.

I look forward to your update on this issue.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[3arod13]

Re: Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

Tony,

I appreciate all of your posts, and all of the positive contributions that you've made to GUF. But I must ask: Is there really a need to make a personal attack on Howard? And to do so in such a completely baseless manner? Honestly, it's irresponsibe, if not downright silly. Do you have any idea how many people Howard has publicly helped with Phillies, Mariners, Orioles, Trailblazers, etc., etc., items on GUF? And how many times has Howard been quick to hop on here and provide good words in support of a dealer or collector (as recently as a few days ago when he praised Joe Esposito of B&E Collectibles). I understand that you are upset that Howard believes that your suggestion is unrealistic, but let's be reasonable (and civil).

As for your suggestion, I, for one, would love it if Ripken himself were to comment on this glove. However, I don't believe that this would resolve all issues (for example, the issue of how Heritage has repeatedly asserted that the glove is a Ripken game used glove in light of all of the expert opinions that do not support this claim; certainly, this issue cannot be resolved by Cal Ripken Jr., as it has nothing to do with him). But, again, I'm all for Ripken commenting on this glove (if someone actually has the know-how and power to make this happen).

It would also be helpful if Chris Ivy would comment. Again, I am surprised that he has not offered an explanation.

Best,

Reid

Reid,

It doesn't bother me at all whether Howard agrees or disagrees with my comments. That's not an issue at all.

To say that it wouldn't do any good to contact the Orioles for help because they wouldn't have an interest it in, or to say Cal Jr. can't offer and or say anything more than what others has said, to me is negative and actually not true. I've done this many times, and teams and players were willing to help. From what I know, Cal Ripken Jr. is a great guy and if he was aware of all this, I'm sure he would help.

You're correct in that I didn't need to be so direct in my statement. However, I have made posts and/or responded to posts and he has made comments that I felt were harsh and rude. I could go back to earlier posts where I even stated that in the past.

Sometimes, just like with email, it's difficult to tell attitude and tone.

No harm intended.

Regards, Tony