Cal Ripken Fielders Glove Bought for a "Song" on eBay

[CollectGU]

Dave,

Two of your posts have already been edited in this thread (one of them was completely removed) for ONCE AGAIN violating GUF rules. Clearly, you have no respect for this forum, its members, or its moderators.

Try as you might, though, this thread will not be derailed onto another topic. It will remain on topic: the Ripken glove sham. It is not a matter of one authenticator versus another. NO authenticator that Heritage or you can find will say that this glove was game used by Ripken, yet Heritage continues to say that it is Ripken's game used glove. Unfortunately, this simply isn't true. Your responses are bordering on desparation at this point. I'm willing to take this as far as you like. I look forward to your response and I thank you for helping to bring as much attention to this issue as possible (seriously, your posts are a terrific help!).

Best,
Reid

Reid,

It's obvious to all readers here that you are not objective on this glove(as evidenced by your not recognizing the maker of the glove as an expert or that the fact that the glove shows obvious signs of wear including the oiled palm trait of Cal's). I am also not objective as I am the owner. The most objective post on this subject ahs been Rudy's and Mvandor's.

[content edited]

Regards,
Dave

[ChrisCavalier]

Please keep in mind the following forum rule when making posts:

It is expected that all posts are to be created with a sincere attempt to benefit the hobby. Any posts which the Administrator deems as a personal attack or an attempt to unnecessarily discredit others will be subject to the administrative rules of the forum.

The objective of the forum is to help educate each other in a positive environment. I understand there are some differences of opinion here but please make sure the forum rules are observed when posting.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Sincerely,
Chris

[CollectGU]

Reid,

I am no longer going to discuss the glove with you on the forum as this back and forth childish bickering is bringing no value to the collecting community and it's obvious we both lack objectivity. We both seem to be regurgitating the same arguments overe and over. The readers know where we stand ad nauseum. This will be my last post to you on this subject. I believe that Rudy's post covers the subject objectively and will leave it at that:

it essentially seems to be boiling down to a clevenhagen vs. esken issue. if clevenhagen is correct, then the glove is at a minimum, a legit game-issued glove that was specifically intended to be given to ripken for game use. if esken is correct, then the glove is not even a game-issue or ripken-spec model. given that i've never spoken to either, it's difficult to know whose opinion carries more weight. on one hand, clevenhagen made the thing. i'm not sure how you improve on that. of course, this entirely depends on clevenhagen having an excellent memory and being an upstanding, diligent, detail-driven guy. if he is, then i really fail to see how his opinion doesn't trump eskens'. clevenhagen is the one who personally speaks directly to ripken about his gloves. he's the one who gets all of the details from the players first hand. he's the one who knows what's going on in the rawlings glove dept. in other words, all of clevenhagen's knowledge is first-hand. it isn't derived from interpreting things, second-hand knowledge, data, etc. let's say, hypothetically, that esken said the lining is "wrong". does that conclusively mean it's bad or could it be that on that particular glove ripken called clevenhagen and told him he wanted to try a new lining or clevenhagen ran out of a certain material on that day and just substituted it with a comparable material. would esken have been privy to any of that? was esken privy to the private conversations between ripken and clevenhagen? does esken know that, if indeed the lining is wrong, that the substitution wasn't intentionally done by clevenhagen?

of course, if on the other hand clevenhagen is absent-minded, careless, and forgetful, then i can see why his opinion wouldn't carry weight even if he did make it. i don't know clevenhagen so i don't know how much weight his opinion carries. either he's more knowledgeable than esken given that he personally discusses these gloves with the players and he, not esken, knows exactly what goes on every single day in that room at rawlings. or, depending on his personality traits, he can barely be depended on for even the most basic of glove info.

reid's said that "only one is truly an expert in my and many other people's opinion: Denny Esken". reid, you must have some inside knowledge about clevenhagen to have excluded him from your list of "true experts". i'm curious, what is it about clevenhagen that prevents him from being a "true expert" on the gloves he makes?

"Heritage has repeatedly asserted that the glove is a Ripken game used glove in light of all of the expert opinions that do not support this claim"

simply because clevenhagen refrained from commenting on possible game use shouldn't be interpreted as an opinion from him on the matter either way. he didn't support the claim but he also didn't deny it. in fact, the letter simply never addressed it. to further assume the reasons why clevenhagen didn't address the issue of game use is nothing but conjecture.

for the most part, when things are called "game used" it's simply a matter of the specs matching up and use being evident. clevenhagen says the specs match up. anyone can see there's use. whether it's legit use or contrived is apparently an issue. regardless, i'm guessing that's why heritage is calling it game used. whether the specs match up or not is really a question that only clevenhagen can answer. i don't believe esken can say because, as i said, he has no idea if ripken called up clevenhagen and asked him for some modifications. has esken discussed this particular glove with ripken? maybe the glove doesn't match up to ripken's typical gamers (although if ripken himself claims he has all of his gloves except 2, i'd be curious to know how esken became so intimately familiar with ripken's gloves), but it isn't rare for players to request small changes. it's difficult to believe that esken has been privy to all of the changes that players have discussed with clevenhagen. if ripken calls up clevenhagen and asks for a "hot pink fun fur" inside lining, does esken know about that? or does he automatically assume the glove with the pink fun fur lining is wrong?

rudy.

[allstarsplus]

Reid,

It's obvious to all readers here that you are not objective on this glove(as evidenced by your not recognizing the maker of the glove as an expert or that the fact that the glove shows obvious signs of wear including the oiled palm trait of Cal's). I am also not objective as I am the owner. The most objective post on this subject ahs been Rudy's and Mvandor's.

[content edited]

Regards,
Dave

Dave - I was going to "side" with you until you wrote what I highlighted in red. Read Rob's post that Esken said the oil was grease and who says the obvious signs of wear are authentic???? Have you seen a "real" Ripken gamer? How can you compare your oil/grease markings to the ones pictured from Getty and other sites? How can you explain the firm leather in the webbing which doesn't seem consistent with the other signs of wear?

Cal is now aware of this glove. Let's hope we get his spokesperson to Post.

Have you looked at the auction? No bidders on the HA.com website for this "Platinum" item.

I personally put the bulk of the blame on Heritage for not stating all the facts.

I now add Heritage to the list of auction houses that I have serious doubts about. Not to divert, but read about the Jordan 1992 jersey.

Andrew

[3arod13]

Cal is now aware of this glove. Let's hope we get his spokesperson to Post. Andrew

If this is true, I hope someone from Cal's side comes forward. I would hate to see someone pay that amount of money for this glove that still has many questions of its authenticity.

Cal...if you're out there and are aware of this matter, please come forward and solve it immediately.

Regards, Tony

[kingjammy24]

here are some photos of cal in 1999.



given that bob and denny have spoken to each other about this glove, i'm very surprised there's no news about the entire issue of the lining. they must've discussed it right? did they agree to disagree? if so, how did that conversation go?

bob - "denny, as i said in the letter, i remember making this glove for ripken. i remember stitching it together with my bare hands".

denny - "no you didn't".

something like that? seriously, i kid. it's just very surprising that, with clevenhagen saying the lining is good and esken saying it isn't and them speaking to each other, they weren't able to resolve the issue.

anyway, maybe the lining is "wrong" and maybe it doesn't conform to ripken's typical use characteristics, however as reid fontaine said earlier "perhaps Ripken did use it briefly to try out a glove with the unusual lining." maybe it really was sent to ripken to try after trying it out and hating it, he gave it away. maybe that might explain the "tight web"? (ie: very brief use). maybe after it was given away, it was doctored up to show more use than it really had. maybe it's a perfect replica that clevenhagen himself can't tell apart from a gamer. ripken's own words don't exactly put it in a positive light.

while i agree that it'd be good for heritage to mention esken's opinion, i'm unsure about the protocol of it all. that is, they didn't solicit his opinion or pay him for it so can they still issue it? his opinion was issued for another auction house. i'm unsure if heritage can go ahead and use it for their purposes. when GFC and subsequently Historic sold that garbage "87 mcgriff" jersey, i railed on and on about it. neither of them chose to include my opinion in their ads. to quote david brent "and that's the tragedy".

rudy.

[sportscentury]

given that bob and denny have spoken to each other about this glove, i'm very surprised there's no news about the entire issue of the lining. they must've discussed it right? did they agree to disagree? if so, how did that conversation go?

bob - "denny, as i said in the letter, i remember making this glove for ripken. i remember stitching it together with my bare hands".

denny - "no you didn't".

something like that? seriously, i kid. it's just very surprising that, with clevenhagen saying the lining is good and esken saying it isn't and them speaking to each other, they weren't able to resolve the issue.

anyway, maybe the lining is "wrong" and maybe it doesn't conform to ripken's typical use characteristics, however as reid fontaine said earlier "perhaps Ripken did use it briefly to try out a glove with the unusual lining." maybe it really was sent to ripken to try after trying it out and hating it, he gave it away. maybe that might explain the "tight web"? (ie: very brief use). maybe after it was given away, it was doctored up to show more use than it really had. maybe it's a perfect replica that clevenhagen himself can't tell apart from a gamer. ripken's own words don't exactly put it in a positive light.

Hi, Rudy -

I can offer the following, per my conversations with Denny. Denny and Bob do not disagree that Bob made the glove. Also, they do not disagree that it's a pro glove made to Cal's specifications, with the exception of the lining. Denny told me that the lining was an option that became available to the players earlier in the 1990s and that some players did not like it (including Ripken, Ozzie, and a few other stars) because it was "too soft." I did not have this information prior to my earlier post that you quoted above. I actually had planned to not post about this situation again, though I did want to explain my earlier post, since it was quoted.

As for the glove, Heritage has listed it as they fit. Dave and I disagree about many things, but I agree with him that at this point it is up to the bidder/buyer as to his comfort level with the item. As such, I intend this to be my last post on the topic.

Best,
Reid

[3arod13]

Dave and I disagree about many things, but I agree with him that at this point it is up to the bidder/buyer as to his comfort level with the item.
Best,
Reid

I would agree if all bidders are aware of this thread. Then, they could decide on bidding with their confort level.

Regards, Tony

[allstarsplus]

I would agree if all bidders are aware of this thread. Then, they could decide on bidding with their confort level.

Regards, Tony

I wouldn't expect Heritage to alert "Potential Bidders" to read this Thread before bidding so unless they are regulars here or do their own substantial due dillegence I wouldn't expect they can bid with any comfort level.

As for the glove, Heritage has listed it as they fit. Dave and I disagree about many things, but I agree with him that at this point it is up to the bidder/buyer as to his comfort level with the item.

We will see where all this ends after the auction is over I guess.

Andrew

[mvandor]

Hi, Rudy -

I can offer the following, per my conversations with Denny. Denny and Bob do not disagree that Bob made the glove. Also, they do not disagree that it's a pro glove made to Cal's specifications, with the exception of the lining. Denny told me that the lining was an option that became available to the players earlier in the 1990s and that some players did not like it (including Ripken, Ozzie, and a few other stars) because it was "too soft." I did not have this information prior to my earlier post that you quoted above. I actually had planned to not post about this situation again, though I did want to explain my earlier post, since it was quoted.

As for the glove, Heritage has listed it as they fit. Dave and I disagree about many things, but I agree with him that at this point it is up to the bidder/buyer as to his comfort level with the item. As such, I intend this to be my last post on the topic.

Best,
Reid

It occurs to me that it is POSSIBLE given the foregoing that the glove was made for Cal, he tried it in practice, perhaps even a game or two, didn't like the lining, and dumped it quickly before it accumulated the typical characteristics. In fact, if he dumped it quickly, he might not even have memory of it. It seems possible players are often asked to try new gear and simply don't like certain pieces and either end up not using them, or only using them very briefly.