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05-20-2007, 11:04 PM #51
Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"
Here are pics of my 2003 Tomlinson Throwback helmet (with mouthpiece) from NFL Auctions
EricAlways looking for game used San Diego Chargers items...
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05-20-2007, 11:25 PM #52
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Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"
Eric, very interesting, must have cost you body parts as that appears to be an indisputable 2003 game used LT from NFL Auctions. We've already discussed their inflated pricing.
As far as I can tell this differs from mine (the one under so much scrutiny) in several ways. 1. front bumper decal (not used on Chargers helmets in 2004 from my research, at least not on LT's throwback helmet in the Jags game) 2. the face shield on mine goes all the way around which is consistent with pics I've reviewed for 2004 forward for LT 3. blue Riddell labeled chin strap (mine was sold without one I believe, either lambeau gave me an otherwise identical one or I purchased one for it, I don't recall).
Otherwise yours looks identical to mine as best I can tell.
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05-21-2007, 02:45 AM #53
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Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"
Originally Posted by Eric
what i have always found goofy is when equipment managers put the team decal on the rear base of the helmet for sake of uniformity as can be seen on your helmet eric. this process started for good reason - the idea was to cover the clashing red letters of the riddell logo that appears on the front bumper and the rear neck pad lip. but schutt helmets never had a rear neck pad lip with garish lettering. nonetheless, equipment managers continue to put the same rear team decals (shaped to cover riddell neck pad lips) on shutt helmets - which, imo, seem to float on the back of the helmet for no apparent reason!
i almost exlcusively stay away from modern "game-used" football helmets - they are, for the most part, just too easy to replicate given the readily available decals for sale. however, many equipment managers do very small things to their helmets that every forger i have seen misses. these small things are hard to notice and hard to pick up on in photos. for example, there is something very unique about favre's otherwise very common looking game-used helmet that lambeauleeper missed completely - that, among other reasons, is why i knew he was a crook.
while many of the decals available on ebay are very close to what teams use, they are nothing more than just good copies and under close scrutiny don't hold up - simply put, these decals are not what the teams use. the current (gold) rams horns, for example, are probably the toughest decals to replicate - there has never been a set of current "authentic" rams decals available on ebay despite the many claims. as with the case of the rams horns, it can be hard to tell the difference between originals and fakes unless you have them side by side - and then the difference can be very stark.
a good example of the slight difference between authentic decals used by a team and a copy available on ebay can be seen when comparing eric's helmet with lambeauleeper's fake - look how much wider the the lightning bolts are on the fake which can best be seen by looking at the back of the helmet. if one were to drop $15 for a pair of bolt decals on ebay, they would find that they are identical to lambeauleeper's.
todd hewitt, equipment manager of the rams, also does several unique things to to his helmets that are never picked up by forgers and, as such, it is really easy to spot fake rams' helmets. as much as i would like to publicly state what these differences are, and what lambeauleeper missed on the favre helmet, i won't because it will just give these frauds something else to shoot for.
Originally Posted by mvandor
here's a 2004 shot of tomlinson and eric's helemt - notice the section of the facemask in the red circle; identical. this is the facemask tomlinson wore on his white helmet prior to his helmet change in 2005.
now here's a 2005 shot of tomlinson with his new helmet and facemask (photo reversed for easy comparison) and lambeauleeper's fake. notice the area inside the red circle; identical.
Originally Posted by mvandor
not only has this database proven to be a very valuable reference tool, but it never ceases to amaze me how often the helmets i've included re-surface for sale time and again and often with "different" stories of how they were obtained. when i first came across lambeauleeper, i logged his helmets as well and their selling prices - but so many identical ones would be relisted by lambeaukeeper that i stopped logging every version of each of his helmets. and the same goes for other helmets as well - i have many helmets in my database that have resurfaced at least 5 different times in the last 3 years - but rather than keep logging a new photo of the same helmet every time it resurfaces, i simply update the selling price of the photo i have on file. in the past i've also subscribed to several great online photo services (they can be expensive) which has allowed me to create an excellent "reference" photo gallery consisting of over 20,000 photos.
it's amazing what you find when you have such an enormous reference tool, especially of past auctions. helmets resurface all of the time where the seller will put a different facemask on it and create a different history or will switch out paddings, add decals, etc. and try to claim they are something they are not.
one character, vintagekusports (ebay), picked up a beautiful clearshell marietta helmet (delaware blue hens) from a delaware booster - the booster told how he had obtained it from the team and also inlcuded other delaware trinkets in the auction including pennants, large round blue hen pins, a little stuffed mascot, etc.
well, once the ebay history lookup expired, vintagekusports promptly slapped a facemask on it and listed it as a rare game-used michigan helmet that he obtained from a reliable source. imagine his surprise when i called him on it and sent him photos from my database showing it when it was originally listed with all of the other delaware trinkets. he responded by ending his auction and relisting it with protected bidder ids so i caouldn't alert buyers - what a piece of work.
btw, mvandor - i'm sorry if you were the person that purchased lambeauleeper's fake. you will have a tough time with your conscience should the time come when you want to move it given that you could easily list it as a "game-issued" helmet. i've most people that get taken pass along the same salespitch that got them and try to move on... tough call.
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05-21-2007, 09:12 AM #54
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Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"
Thank you aeneas, now that you have pointed out the facemask and lightning bolt differences, I see them. In fact, I have a signed Antonio Gates 2006 helmet that came from RealStuff (one of the main helmet copier businesses, although I often can see issues with their helmets) and now that I compare the lightning bolts, they are the same on the Gates copy and the LT helmet I have, and both are wider than Eric's. Or the photos. It would appear I have an otherwise outstanding knockoff of a 2004 game issue helmet, one I overpaid for.
What intrigues me is the incredibly low volume lambeauleeper does, at least under that ID. In the last 12 months, he's logged but EIGHT seller's feedbacks. As of late, hHe's been reserving items resulting in "no sales". No "crook" can operate on that low of an income or profit margin. Ain't the way criminals work. Seems more probable to me he simply lacks your knowledge and picks these things up at shows, then moves items as he picks up new ones.
BTW, I would be interested in any experience you have with Gridiron Authentics (gridironlegends on ebay). I've purchased many items from them over the years, and have discussed a number of things with the owner, including his tighter definition of "game issue". He's in New England and always seems to have great "game issue" items usually from the Pats. He has told me he gets these from either the teams or "their suppliers" and that neither he nor his staff "doctor" any helmets, apply no decals, etc. I have viewed them as perhaps the most honorable ebay sellers, and that includes comparing to guy's like Rick Radtke that use the now common "game issue" term on known copies.
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05-21-2007, 10:47 AM #55
Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"
Here's how the 2004 Antonio Gates throwback helmet from NFL Auctions looks
2004 Philip Rivers from NFL Auctions. The previous owner got it signed in person...
Always looking for game used San Diego Chargers items...
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05-21-2007, 12:50 PM #56
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Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"
Originally Posted by mvandor
Originally Posted by mvandor
as far as him inocently and unknowingly picking these up at shows thinking they are legit and listing them on ebay as such is concerned - nonsense. he specifically chooses easily replicated modern helmets and when he sells one he lists another after laying low for a while. his m.o. of placing a high reserve is intentional as it implies, to some anyway, that perhaps it is in fact of real value - it must be because he doesn't want to let it go for less than what it's worth, right? wrong.
how many emails do you think this guys has received in the last 3 years alone questioning his items? if he honestly picked them up at shows as you suggest, wouldn't you think he might wonder if they were in fact authentic and perhaps stop listing them until he was certain? but, no, he continues to list them - he's a crook.
Originally Posted by mvandor
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05-21-2007, 01:21 PM #57
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Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"
Eric, here's my auto'd Gates reproduction. You really have to microscope these things to id differences it seems to me. Looks pretty much like yours without the damage, no?
As to aeneas and lambeau, again, guy has a total of 8 buyer feedbacks in the last year. Don't get wasting your time for so little action. BTW he has a Marino helmet up now, and my previous communications with guys at Helmut Hut indicated that according to the Dolphins equipment manager during the Marino years, virtually NONE got out of his control. Based on that alone, I discount ALL Marino's as likely copies. Heck, I got a pretty good one from Pro Sports Investments back when I actually trusted them (see below). Figured it was bogus not only because the shell type seemed off from my research but you could see the outlines where the original warning stickers and NFL shield had been removed. At least I paid a reasonable price for a nice reproduction and the sig was an Upper Deck authenticated one.
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05-21-2007, 02:19 PM #58
Marino Helmt Value Reference
I have enjoed tremendously this post as someone who would like to increase my helmet collection. I just bough a Sam Hurd game used throwback from Game Used Exclusives. I know it is authentic and probally paid a bit more than I should have, but there is no denying its authenticity, and the thro backs get much less use. However I did buy a Marion Barber replica from Ebay and knew what I was buying, and it was sold as such. I also have a Drew Bledsoe autographed helmet I my girlfreind bought from his website. I know the signature is real, then I replicated the whole thing to his current Dallas helmet (all decals, Shutt mask, chin strap) it was a lot of work finding all of the decals (especially the dark blue Riddell front bumper), however it was fun and I would never sell it as real or game issued.
I though I would include a link to what a Dan Marino game used helmet would sell for in the real market.
http://sports.ha.com/common/view_ite...o=19912&src=pr
Jay
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05-21-2007, 02:22 PM #59
The Marino Helmet sold for $33,460
Sorry, the price would not show up.
Jay
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05-21-2007, 03:30 PM #60
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Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"
Originally Posted by mvandor
anyway, here are other "game-issued" fakes from lambeauleeper including another very rare marino helmet that he sold on ebay last month for $1,200...
one of his many favre lids...
one of his many elway lids...
a brees...
a reggie white...
the guy must have some pretty impressive connections to get his hands on so many "game issued" lids from current and future hall of famers, eh? why mess around obscure players when you can get a hold of multiple lids per super star? good grief...