ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

**suave1477** · 05-09-2007, 07:40 PM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Eric its disgusting he is an adult and knows right from wrong. POINT BLANK NO EXCUSES

He is selling high premium items as items that were made for these players to be worn or used in an actual game, meanwhile it could have been my cousin Jimmy who ade it in his garage.

But because he didnt know my cousin Jimmy made it he automatically thinks it gives him the right to call it Game Issued.

How about the fact all the people who probably spent big money on those others players helmets you mentioned and they have no clue that the Helmet could of came from Toys R Us for free with purchasing a slurpee.

**mvandor** · 05-09-2007, 08:20 PM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Gentlemen, IMHO you're overreacting to this general issue, and specifically to this seller's listings.

Let me start by saying it would be nice if things in this world were as they should be. However, as we all know we live in a very flawed world, sadly twisted by greed. Game used collectors should know this better than anyone because the larger dollar values have invited off the charts fraud. This forum does a great job of documenting this.

Let me say on the general issue of use of the term "game issue" that within 6 months of becoming an NFL memorabilia collector, I had learned that the term is VERY liberally used. My naive assumption in the beginning was that it meant "team issued" and came from the locker room. Over time I learned that it almost always was used to refer to a stock item that had been customized to approximate what the team issues to the players.

I have had discussions with major reputable ebay sellers on this issue from Rick Radtke to the owner of Gridiron Authentics. If asked pointedly they will give you honest answers. I've even asked Rick to stop using the term, but in a competitive market I understand why he has not. Recently, Gridiron Authentics has been selling off a series of Tom Brady "game issue" helmets and I was told that they came from the company supplying the Patriots helmets to the team, and that all customization was done by that company identical to those they delivered to the Pats for Brady's use. Well, that's close, but not quite the same as coming from the team.

Lambeauleeper hasn't done anything the rest of the sellers on ebay haven't done. He doesn't say his items came from the team. He doesn't sell volumes. He drops 4 or 5 helmets on the market a few times a year, right now he only has one feedback you can view because the rest are too old, for example. Further, most of his helmets don't sell for huge amounts, so the profit motive is nothing like in the "game used" market.

I've followed his stuff for about a year, having bought a Tomlinson throwback game issue helmet from him that I believe has a good likelihood from my research of being authentic - or at least the best copy I've seen of the dozen or so to hit ebay in the last year. At $400, I can live with it either way.

I generally feel that the term "game issue" is too liberally used, yes, but he does not try and lie as to provenance of his items.

**suave1477** · 05-09-2007, 10:56 PM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Originally posted by mvandor

Gentlemen, IMHO you're overreacting to this general issue, and specifically to this seller's listings.

Let me start by saying it would be nice if things in this world were as they should be. However, as we all know we live in a very flawed world, sadly twisted by greed. Game used collectors should know this better than anyone because the larger dollar values have invited off the charts fraud. This forum does a great job of documenting this.

Let me say on the general issue of use of the term "game issue" that within 6 months of becoming an NFL memorabilia collector, I had learned that the term is VERY liberally used. My naive assumption in the beginning was that it meant "team issued" and came from the locker room. Over time I learned that it almost always was used to refer to a stock item that had been customized to approximate what the team issues to the players.

I have had discussions with major reputable ebay sellers on this issue from Rick Radtke to the owner of Gridiron Authentics. If asked pointedly they will give you honest answers. I've even asked Rick to stop using the term, but in a competitive market I understand why he has not. Recently, Gridiron Authentics has been selling off a series of Tom Brady "game issue" helmets and I was told that they came from the company supplying the Patriots helmets to the team, and that all customization was done by that company identical to those they delivered to the Pats for Brady's use. Well, that's close, but not quite the same as coming from the team.

Lambeauleeper hasn't done anything the rest of the sellers on ebay haven't done. He doesn't say his items came from the team. He doesn't sell volumes. He drops 4 or 5 helmets on the market a few times a year, right now he only has one feedback you can view because the rest are too old, for example. Further, most of his helmets don't sell for huge amounts, so the profit motive is nothing like in the "game used" market.

I've followed his stuff for about a year, having bought a Tomlinson throwback game issue helmet from him that I believe has a good likelihood from my research of being authentic - or at least the best copy I've seen of the dozen or so to hit ebay in the last year. At $400, I can live with it either way.

I generally feel that the term "game issue" is too liberally used, yes, but he does not try and lie as to provenance of his items.

Im sorry to say this but I disagree with almost everything you said here.

Overreacting I don't see that possible as he is still trying to sell a retail item as Game Issued. You can hide behind saying "well Game Issued can mean many things to different people"
But in plain enlish Game Issued means exactly what it means GAME ISSUED the item was made specifically for GAME PLAY
If the item was made to the exact specifications of a player but not made for the team / player to use for a Game, then it is called (Pro Cut for Jerseys or Pro Made for other items)
Now your saying well he only drops a few of these a year into the hobby, hellooooooooooo that is a big deal because that means these so called items that he claims to not know where they come from will end up in the hobby one day as Game Used.
You say well its $400 and worth it since it looks pretty good.
Well to the average collector / buyer likes to actually spend $400 for the item he is told hes buying. Not turning around insinuating its the real thing and your actually just buying a good look-a-like.
Also you make spending $400 as is an easy loss to take well not many people just have $400 to throw down the drain and say "oh well its just $400"

I dont mind you taking a defense on his behalf but it bothers me that you tried to make good points out of what the flaws are in this hobby and the reason why a forum like this is needed.

Eric I will tip my hat off to you again for creating such a forum so we can try to elliminate that bad out of it as much as we can. Whether it be a small percentage or a lot but at least we can try to curb some of it.

**beantown** · 05-09-2007, 11:01 PM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

I'll speak for the Brady items this individual has sold....First, the helmets are WRONG because of the small size.....Brady wears a larger size. Second, if you're going to sell a game issued 2003 Brady jersey, make sure its at least a game issued jersey. The jersey lambeauleeper sold recently on Ebay (see attached pictures) was a store bought, not even sure if it was a "real" authentic jersey, which had a neck tag and tail tag added.....100% bogus jersey

Attached Files

**whatupyos** · 05-09-2007, 11:07 PM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

I don't know this seller who is selling these items, but in general, if you're selling something, especially sports memorabillia wise, I think you have a responsibility to know where your items come from and if they are game used, game issued, whatever. You should make every attempt to make this known in your description when selling an item!!!!!

Aaron

**G1X** · 05-09-2007, 11:07 PM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

mvandor,

Thanks for clarifying the use of the term "game issued" as that is not a term I have run across as a football jersey collector and seller (I don't collect helmets). In my opinion, the term is confusing and misleading, especially since they are describing an item that was not issued by the team for possible game use. Shouldn't the sellers be using the term "replica" or "authentic replica"? You can't get much clearer than that, and that's precisely what it is - a REPLICA!!!

But I guess this is no different than folks listing a jersey on ebay and in the header calling it "game worn", then backpedaling in the description with innuendo, disclaimers, and other bits of information and misinfomation that further clouds the issue. Again, why not call it what it is - a REPLICA!!!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

**EndzoneSports** · 05-10-2007, 01:20 AM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Eric:

Please contact me privately via e-mail at EndzoneSports@msn.com. I've lost your e-mail address and may have an offer for you that you can't refuse.

Best regards,

**mvandor** · 05-10-2007, 01:20 AM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Suave, have you reviewed his currently for sale and sold items? You seem to be rather quick to call him a crook and judge all his items "retail".

In the few weeks I've been hanging around here I've photo checked alot of supposedly game used jerseys and easily was able to disqualify a ton of them by a simple photo check. However, I've been unable to disqualify this ebay seller's helmets so easily, for example his Reggie White matches every available photo on gettyone.com for the SB in question, as does the Favre. The Marino I discount as I've spoken to individuals at HelmetHut (if I recall correctly) who know the equipment manager for the Dolphins during the Marino years and has opined that virtually none of Dan's helmets got out of the team's control. Nevertheless, from the exterior, it looks very good (I do note he doesn't show pics of helmet interiors which might be giveaways as to authenticity if shown, don't know).

It seems to me if someone is gonna be a memorabilia crook, they'd go for the big money, wack on the helmets, and auction em as game used - AND push some volume. It seems odd someone would auction so few helmets, refer to them only as "game issue" and not lie as to proof of provenance if it was an ongoing scam.

Do I know his helmets are legit from teams? Nope. But he doesn't represent them as such, only that they match the game helmets as far as specs, and that he commits the sadly common sin of using the "game issue" term.

My principal focus in collecting over the last year has been helmets, and I can nearly always spot flaws in supposed "game issues", yet this guy's stuff I can't. So either he's got some legit helmets or he's better at his effort than volume helmet copiers like RealStuff.

Can't comment on his jersey(s), not my area of expertise.

I guess my point is it's easy to take cynicism to an extreme given the degree of fraud in the hobby. However, for the most part this guy's use of the term "game issue" is no worse than anyone else selling these types of helmets on ebay.

**mvandor** · 05-10-2007, 01:36 AM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

BTW, beantown, you refer to a Brady helmet he sold, but I see no such item either in his feedback or completed listings. Where are you getting that one from?

**reed1216** · 05-10-2007, 02:10 AM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Ignorance is not and should not be a defense. Citing the fact that this is a "competitive market" is even worse. Taking it a step further would be to justify selling retail jerseys that were worn in a pickup game by the seller as game used. I think we would all be in agreement that that would be fraudulent, but if the "competitive market" arguement validates the misuse of the term "game issued," why not take that next step??

The bottom line is that people that sell their items have an obligation to be truthful in disclosing the history behind them. If they really are unaware of the history of their item, they should state that up front. At least the seller that Eric questioned responded to his inquiries. While the responses were lame, many sellers simply ignore such requests for information in the hope that some unsuspecting buyer will take the bait. It sucks, there's no excuse for that and hopefully, by discussing these items and those that sell them, slowly these incidents will occur less frequently.

**kneerat** · 05-10-2007, 08:20 AM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Hey guys,
I am not calling this person a crook, but how can he not know the history of something that may be the most important helmet of Brett Favre's career?

If he obtained this via purchase or trade, it would make sense that he would ask the person how it was originally obtained.

Also, I have seen many helmets that have been used in a game. They almost always show hit marks, scratching, field paint, something... If there is absolutely no wear at all, then I don't know if you can even raise the possibility that it might be game-worn. Game-issued would be possible, but not game worn.
If that Favre helmet was actually a backup to his original used in Super Bowl XXXI, I would think that it is still worth 6-8k...

One last note: I have been tracking this user id for some time now... He has some amazing helmets that he described as game-issued or maybe game-used. I would assume that he gets most of his stuff from the same source. This guy has been listing helmets like this for at least a year or two. You would think at some point he would find out where they are all coming from.

**beantown** · 05-10-2007, 08:33 AM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Originally posted by mvandor

BTW, beantown, you refer to a Brady helmet he sold, but I see no such item either in his feedback or completed listings. Where are you getting that one from?

lambeauleeper has had them in the past....I just checked lambeauleepers feedback and I notice this....

Error Page | eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140090693589

$5,000.00 for a team issued jersey

Moreover, this IS NOT a team issued jersey but a retail authentic...does not have the correct cut to be team issued....

**hblakewolf** · 05-10-2007, 08:38 AM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Chris-
Not to get off of the subject, however, why has SCD turned from such an informative publication in the past, now to a 55 page vehicle for auction houses to self-promote and advertise while you and the staff stay away from reporting any type of controversial activities in the hobby?

Personally, when my subscription runs out, I'll need to take a good hard look at renewing. If your current format and editiorial support of your advertisers continues, I'll be hard pressed to renew.

I suggest you start a thread and possibly ask for input on ways to improve your publication.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

**mvandor** · 05-10-2007, 08:48 AM

Re: ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

Originally posted by beantown

lambeauleeper has had them in the past....I just checked lambeauleepers feedback and I notice this....

Error Page | eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140090693589

$5,000.00 for a team issued jersey

Moreover, this IS NOT a team issued jersey but a retail authentic...does not have the correct cut to be team issued....

Again, I can't comment on the jerseys, you guys are far more knowledgeable than I on those.

My biggest beef with him on the helmets is that they are in the "game used" category on ebay and even he admits he has no evidence that they were used so he's selling them as "game Issued".

Apparently several of us have monitored his items for some time, we're just drawing different conclusions as to the helmets and/or his sales techniques.

As I've said, if he's making these up he's doing a near perfect job, better than anyone else including companies that create copies in volume as a business. I can't find a single flaw in any photomatch effort and I challenge you guys to find one (helmets only).

I simply don't feel he's misrepresenting the helmets in his descriptions (although the title and category are misleading) or in his responses to questions. Obviously if he had any provenance, heck even a good story or a pay-per-LOA Lampson cert, he'd get alot more for these helmets. ALOT MORE. That alone leads me to believe he's not running an intentional scam, if he is, he's REAL small time in his approach to be sure.

I don't disagree that the term "game issue" as used to refer to helmets SHOULD be defined as "team issue", however, that's just not the way the industry has operated or is operating. Any helmet collector has to know that and has to ask the right questions and due the usual due diligence then bid accordingly. Or not.

With all the big money game used fraud going around this case isn't worth the time already devoted to it in this thread.

ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

ebay seller lambeauleeper and "game issued"

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