Shady Football Helmet Deals...

[aeneas01]

thought some of you might be interested in a couple of other shady deals i have come across when dealing with football helmets sold at auction...

the first case concerns an ebay seller who listed a rare delaware blue hens helmet (clearshell marietta with leather padding). the seller said he was a delaware alumnus, that he obtained the helmet from the team and also included in his auction a few other blue hen trinkets including the pin pictured below and other items not shown. it was indeed an authentic delaware blue hens helmet. the buyer, vintagekusports (ebay), picked it for a steal at $195.

once ebay's user history lookup expired, a window in which allows anyone to see what an ebayer bought and sold, vintagekusports promptly listed the helmet. but instead of listing it as what it was, an authentic blue hen helmet obtained from a delaware alumnus, he slapped a facemask on it and relisted it as a game-used michigan helmet that he had obtained from a reliable source. it sold for $700. i confronted him on this and he responded by relisting the helmet using private bidding so that i could not warn buyers.

what makes this instance so disturbing is that vintagekusports is an active memorabilia dealer on ebay and often has fantastic vintage items for sale - authentic vintage items. yet his greed got the better part of him on the delaware helmet...

here are a couple of photos of when it was originally listed (i added red circles to the photos to show common marks)...




here are a couple of photos of vintagekusports relisting of the helmet when he described it as a game-used michigan helmet...





here's another one - an ebayer listed this helmet as a game-used chargers helemet. a very nice lid that looks to be authentic...





here it is when it was listed again - check out what happened to the number 41 on the back of the helmet! guess the lister wasn't concerned that the number switching didn't match the correct number written inside the helmet....

[Eric]

I remember seeing that chargers helmet a long time ago. Do you remember the seller's name? Also, if memory serves, they did not sell that as game used, correct?

Eric

[aeneas01]

I remember seeing that chargers helmet a long time ago. Do you remember the seller's name? Also, if memory serves, they did not sell that as game used, correct?

Eric

i came across the helmet in march of 2006 and i do believe that it was listed as a game-used bolts lid. but, no, i don't have any recollection of who the seller(s) were...

are you a chargers' fan or do you collect items from all teams?

[Eric]

are you a chargers' fan or do you collect items from all teams?

Just the bolts. If you've got any in your collection, I'd love to hear about it.
Eric

[DrJ]

aeneas01 - the Charger helmet is back at auction, but it has number 41 on back. I thought you said the last seller switched it from 41 to 14 (presumably to make it more valuable)??? Here are the facts. The Charger helmet in question was at auction long ago and the pictures showed the 41 written inside (twice if I recall) but #14 on back (probably a switch by someone due to #14 being Fouts). I don't think the seller had switched it because as I recall he was selling a collection of someone elses and just didn't come across as knowledgeable in his auction writeups. I purchased the helmet anyway because I was interested in the style and don't collect star players without impeccable provenence (i.e. team letter). When it arrived in the mail it had 41 on back. I assumed the seller probably got so many emails about the discrepancy that he switched it. Maybe many in my shoes would have shot off a nasty email, but I actually preferred that the 41 was correctly placed on back because to be honest I probably would have made it correct myself. I researched and found that Ernest Jackson wore #41 during the period the helmet was dated to. I also found a photo of Jackson wearing a helmet like this with the same mask. I eventually obtained another yellow-bolt Chargers helmet and decided to part with this one because the other was in better condition. I sold the helmet as a game-used Ernest Jackson helmet based on my research. I sold it for about $12 more than I paid, but I never charge full shipping so I probably did good if I broke even. I admit, I don't recall mentioning that 14 was on back at one time - that was an oversight on my part, but an honest one. The helmet left my possession the same way I received it and I 100% believe that the helmet truly is an Ernest Jackson game used helmet. Now everyone can feel free to let me know what I did so horribly wrong!

[Jags Fan Dan]

Here is one take on it from a respected seller:

http://www.jimyackel.com/6-3-07editorial.htm

[aeneas01]

aeneas01 - the Charger helmet is back at auction, but it has number 41 on back. I thought you said the last seller switched it from 41 to 14 (presumably to make it more valuable)??? Here are the facts. The Charger helmet in question was at auction long ago and the pictures showed the 41 written inside (twice if I recall) but #14 on back (probably a switch by someone due to #14 being Fouts). I don't think the seller had switched it because as I recall he was selling a collection of someone elses and just didn't come across as knowledgeable in his auction writeups. I purchased the helmet anyway because I was interested in the style and don't collect star players without impeccable provenence (i.e. team letter). When it arrived in the mail it had 41 on back. I assumed the seller probably got so many emails about the discrepancy that he switched it. Maybe many in my shoes would have shot off a nasty email, but I actually preferred that the 41 was correctly placed on back because to be honest I probably would have made it correct myself. I researched and found that Ernest Jackson wore #41 during the period the helmet was dated to. I also found a photo of Jackson wearing a helmet like this with the same mask. I eventually obtained another yellow-bolt Chargers helmet and decided to part with this one because the other was in better condition. I sold the helmet as a game-used Ernest Jackson helmet based on my research. I sold it for about $12 more than I paid, but I never charge full shipping so I probably did good if I broke even. I admit, I don't recall mentioning that 14 was on back at one time - that was an oversight on my part, but an honest one. The helmet left my possession the same way I received it and I 100% believe that the helmet truly is an Ernest Jackson game used helmet. Now everyone can feel free to let me know what I did so horribly wrong!

drj: your above post prompted me to go back to my photodatabase and re-check my information - what i found was that you are entirely correct and that i in fact incorrectly posted the sequence of sales - my apologies, especially to you, given that it appears you are personally involved with this helmet.

here is the correct info based on the information i have on file: the bolts helmet with the exterior number 14 sold in or around march of '06. it was later sold again in or around november of '06 with the exterior number corrected to match the interior number (41). the photo date in my database for the first photo (14) was 03-07-06; i erroneously read this as 03/07 which is what i based my wrong conclusion on. again, my apologies.

interestingly, or not surprisingly, the helmet sold for more when correctly numbered - not much more, but more. as far as correctly adjusting these numbers is concerned, under these circumstances i don't see anything remotely wrong with this nor do i think it's remotely or morally incumbent on the seller to inform prospective buyers of this information. just as wouldn't see anything remotely wrong with, or worthy of disclaiming, the correcting of jaw pads that were attached to a helmet incorrectly.

as far as the use of "game used/worn" to describe a helmet is concerned, it's my personal opinion that this term should be used only when supporting documentation, such as a loa, can also be provided. the irony here, again imo, is that there are forum members that i consider equally expert at identifying actual game used items when compared to the pros that get paid for such authentications. even so, i still think it's wrong to portray an item as "game used/worn" without a letter of authenticity or something similar that can support the item's origin.

sadly, there are far too many unscrupulous sellers who play "loosy-goosy" with the term "game used/worn" when it comes to football helmets - as far as many are concerned, if the helmet shows any game use they feel free to use that term regardless if the helmet was even used by the team in question, i.e., white helmet that has seen some action + dolphins decals purchased on ebay + american flag and warning decals purchased on ebay = game used dolphins helmet. happens every day.

yet, having said this, i see absolutely no problem with someone listing an item as "what i believe to be game used/worn" followed by supportive information such as the seller's experience in the hobby, photo matches, etc... as a matter of fact, i believe helmets listed in this manner tend to draw equal or more interest than helmets listed as "game used/worn" without authetication because of the honesty of the item description.

what's also very interesting is how well a helmet can sometimes do without the benefit of any claim whatsoever to authentic lineage - for example, in october of 2005 someone listed an earl campbell texas helmet on ebay. this thing was an absolute beauty - a near mint clearshell macgregor adorned with the exact same facemask and chinstrap campbell wore at texas. the helmet was an exact match in every possible way. yet did the seller list this helmet as a game issued, game worn, game used, campbell owned or anything else that would give the impression that it once belonged to campbell? no. he listed it as an authentic vintage texas helmet that he meticulously reassembled to look like the exact same helmet campbell wore. the seller included in his ad a shot of campbell on the cover of sports illustrated along with a few other photos showing how precise the helmet was. the thing sold for $3,800 and had a ton of bids!