Shady Football Helmet Deals...

[aeneas01]

thought some of you might be interested in a couple of other shady deals i have come across when dealing with football helmets sold at auction...

the first case concerns an ebay seller who listed a rare delaware blue hens helmet (clearshell marietta with leather padding). the seller said he was a delaware alumnus, that he obtained the helmet from the team and also included in his auction a few other blue hen trinkets including the pin pictured below and other items not shown. it was indeed an authentic delaware blue hens helmet. the buyer, vintagekusports (ebay), picked it for a steal at $195.

once ebay's user history lookup expired, a window in which allows anyone to see what an ebayer bought and sold, vintagekusports promptly listed the helmet. but instead of listing it as what it was, an authentic blue hen helmet obtained from a delaware alumnus, he slapped a facemask on it and relisted it as a game-used michigan helmet that he had obtained from a reliable source. it sold for $700. i confronted him on this and he responded by relisting the helmet using private bidding so that i could not warn buyers.

what makes this instance so disturbing is that vintagekusports is an active memorabilia dealer on ebay and often has fantastic vintage items for sale - authentic vintage items. yet his greed got the better part of him on the delaware helmet...

here are a couple of photos of when it was originally listed (i added red circles to the photos to show common marks)...




here are a couple of photos of vintagekusports relisting of the helmet when he described it as a game-used michigan helmet...





here's another one - an ebayer listed this helmet as a game-used chargers helemet. a very nice lid that looks to be authentic...





here it is when it was listed again - check out what happened to the number 41 on the back of the helmet! guess the lister wasn't concerned that the number switching didn't match the correct number written inside the helmet....

[Eric]

I remember seeing that chargers helmet a long time ago. Do you remember the seller's name? Also, if memory serves, they did not sell that as game used, correct?

Eric

[aeneas01]

I remember seeing that chargers helmet a long time ago. Do you remember the seller's name? Also, if memory serves, they did not sell that as game used, correct?

Eric

i came across the helmet in march of 2006 and i do believe that it was listed as a game-used bolts lid. but, no, i don't have any recollection of who the seller(s) were...

are you a chargers' fan or do you collect items from all teams?

[Eric]

are you a chargers' fan or do you collect items from all teams?

Just the bolts. If you've got any in your collection, I'd love to hear about it.
Eric

[DrJ]

aeneas01 - the Charger helmet is back at auction, but it has number 41 on back. I thought you said the last seller switched it from 41 to 14 (presumably to make it more valuable)??? Here are the facts. The Charger helmet in question was at auction long ago and the pictures showed the 41 written inside (twice if I recall) but #14 on back (probably a switch by someone due to #14 being Fouts). I don't think the seller had switched it because as I recall he was selling a collection of someone elses and just didn't come across as knowledgeable in his auction writeups. I purchased the helmet anyway because I was interested in the style and don't collect star players without impeccable provenence (i.e. team letter). When it arrived in the mail it had 41 on back. I assumed the seller probably got so many emails about the discrepancy that he switched it. Maybe many in my shoes would have shot off a nasty email, but I actually preferred that the 41 was correctly placed on back because to be honest I probably would have made it correct myself. I researched and found that Ernest Jackson wore #41 during the period the helmet was dated to. I also found a photo of Jackson wearing a helmet like this with the same mask. I eventually obtained another yellow-bolt Chargers helmet and decided to part with this one because the other was in better condition. I sold the helmet as a game-used Ernest Jackson helmet based on my research. I sold it for about $12 more than I paid, but I never charge full shipping so I probably did good if I broke even. I admit, I don't recall mentioning that 14 was on back at one time - that was an oversight on my part, but an honest one. The helmet left my possession the same way I received it and I 100% believe that the helmet truly is an Ernest Jackson game used helmet. Now everyone can feel free to let me know what I did so horribly wrong!

[Jags Fan Dan]

Here is one take on it from a respected seller:

http://www.jimyackel.com/6-3-07editorial.htm

[DrJ]

I read that article - how does that relate to me? Please provide insight. For your info I'm one of the few he will take helmets from. When I've got more time I'll add more, but busy right now.

[mvandor]

Dr. J, I'm not a puritan. I see no indescretion on your part. In the end the best that could happen to that helmet is what happened, the rear numerals were corrected and the helmet was represented as what it is or appears to be.

What would a puritan collector do, feed the helmet to a woodchipper?

As to disclosure, there are limits as to what a reasonable person would disclose. I see no merit in disclosing the migrating numeral back story.

[DrJ]

Dr. J, I'm not a puritan. I see no indescretion on your part. In the end the best that could happen to that helmet is what happened, the rear numerals were corrected and the helmet was represented as what it is or appears to be.

What would a puritan collector do, feed the helmet to a woodchipper?

As to disclosure, there are limits as to what a reasonable person would disclose. I see no merit in disclosing the migrating numeral back story.

Thanks for your response. And to be clear - I didn't intentionally withhold the fact of the numeral change, I just didn't think to add it to the description - it wasn't a big deal that stuck in my head. And I certainly didn't take the helmet and turn it into a FOUTS as was described by the original post to make big money. The helmet was sold as received by me, as belonging to the correct player in my opinion and at little or no profit. Like I said, if the original seller had not switched the numerals prior to me receiving it, I would have done the same and thought I did the right thing. Thanks again.

[Jags Fan Dan]

I read that article - how does that relate to me? Please provide insight. For your info I'm one of the few he will take helmets from. When I've got more time I'll add more, but busy right now.

The helmet has/had minor issues, issues which were not disclosed when the helmet was sold. That is how the article relates to the situation you describe. I am certainly not implying that you intentionally did something wrong. In fact, I bet many would agree they see nothing wrong with what you did. Fixing the helmet the way you did was indeed, in my opinion, the best and most honest recourse for the situation. I am not trying to pass judgement. I don't know anyone on here well enough to pass any sort of judgement on anybody.