2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

[Eric]

Ladies and Gentlemen we are truly blessed at this time. The chance to look at not one but two extremely rare jerseys authenticated by the same person, for sale at the same time.

Behold 2 1994 Throwback John Elway Game Worn white Jerseys.

Notes
One is a size 46, one is a size 48
Lampson gives the one in Vintage Authentics 0 points for provenance rarity, so maybe there are more out there!!!

Vintage Authentics
Road white Wilson Denver Broncos throwback style jersey used by Hall of Fame QB John Elway during the NFL's 75th Anniversary season of 1994. The gamer features the ever-popular 75th Anniversary patch in correct position on upper left chest properly zigzag affixed. Single color sleeve numerals and Wilson "W" (left sleeve) in correct white while body numerals and NOB in proper 2-color font sewn on. The sleeve cuffs are ribbed as worn by Elway on TBC jerseys in 1994. Overall the game use evidence is light apropos single game and leads to a final authentic grade of 6.5.

http://vintageauthentics.at.truition.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=81419365&prmenbr=57735959&aunbr=81766075

American Memorabilia
This size "48" Wilson throwback jersey was worn by the Hall of Fame quarterback during the 1994 season. Light quarterback wear, as would be expected from a style used for only a few games, is evident on this timeless gamer. Orange and blue sleeve ends and an orange V-neck accentuate the white mesh body. All of the numerals, which have puckered noticeably, are sewn on in two-color tackle twill. An NFL 75th Anniversary patch is affixed on the left breast. Diamond-shaped inserts are built into the underarms, and a strip of stretch spandex is applied to the sides. "ELWAY" is sewn to a nameplate on the verso. A Wilson tag appears in the tail with a suspended flag designator. Elway signed ("9") the verso numeral in silver paint pen.

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=35956

What my friends are the odds?
Eric

[EndzoneSports]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

As detailed in an article on our website (see "Unique" Elway Jerseys Abound (5/8/05)" at http://endzone.pscoggin.com/newsarch.htm), Lampson had "authenticated" (for lack of a better term) at least two (unique as identified by differing autos) if not 3 of this exact same style of Elway jersey for American Memorabilia's auctions between 2002 and 2005. As these were all sized 48, the appearance of the one sized at 46 would for sure make for at least 3 "unique" specimens and possibly as many as 5. To account for up to five, this would presume that the unautographed jersey in 2002 was not subsequently autographed and then re-sold in 2004 or '05 and that the current unautographed size 48 is again not the same one previously offered. To Lou's VA's credit, they at least got the description down right, noting that this was for "single game use", whereas AMIs description noted that this style was "used for only a few games". The ONLY game in which this style was worn by the Broncos was on 9/26/94 at Buffalo.



Also noted in the above referenced article is that Grey Flannel has seperately authenticated three different jerseys of this style in sizes 44, 46 and 48. Additionally, the Pro Football Hall of Fame also lays claim to having this jersey within their collection, it having been donated to them by the team/player. HOF Rep Jason Aikens confirmed that their jersey is also the white, road jersey in a size 44.

Regards,

[Eric]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

Patrick-

Congratulations. You beat the authenticator.
Eric

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

What my friends are the odds?

[EndzoneSports]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

As a follow-up on this topic, after reviewing graphics of the two listings, I would speculate that the jersey currently at auction by American Memorabilia (http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=35956) is the same one that was sold in their 4/7/2005 auction (note autograph on back #7)


2005 (above) and 2007 (below) AMI auction listings


From Lampon, this would total at least four of this single-game style jersey that he has "authenticated": 3 different in size 48 (2002 - no auto, light QB wear, 2004 black auto, awesome QB wear; 2005/'07 silver auto, lightly used) and now a fourth in a 46 currently offered by Vintage Auth.

Regards,

[Eric]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

Patrick provided additional valuable info on the old forum on this very topic.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/379976/thread/1111851849/last-1111949488/94+Throwback+Elway+Jerseys+LOA'd+by+Lampson

[lund6771]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

this eally shows how stupid Lampson is...he also authenticated a bunch of Brett Favre throwbacks as well that was worn on Halloween night against the Bears...Lampson would probably say that it's very common for a star player to change jerseys after every play...I can't wait to walk into the post office someday and see a wanted poster of this idiot

[EndzoneSports]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

As we have recently received a number of contacts regarding the 1994 Elway “Thowback” jerseys, I thought it would be best to recap the entire history here.

• In Nov 1998, Endzone Sports Charities (ESC) procures a size 48 white, road 1994 “Thowback” jersey authenticated by Grey Flannel (LOA # R.V. 324E, 2/9/1998), presumed to be the authentic jersey worn by QB John Elway on Sep 26. ‘94 at Buffalo—the only game where this style of jersey was worn by the Broncos. ESC jersey subsequently sold in good faith, as we had since procured another sample for our collection.
• An October 2000 article in the Denver Rocky Mountain News highlighted several pieces of Broncos memorabilia that were a part of the HOF's collection. One of the items noted was, "John Elway's complete Throwback uniform from the 1994 season." On Aug 27, 2001 Jason Aikens of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, confirmed via e-mail that, “Our Elway throwbacks jersey is white and size 44”, thus initially raising speculation.
• ESC contacted Grey Flannel (GF) on 4/28/01 when they offered a 2nd jersey of the same style (in size 44) as Lot #1130 in their 2001 Spring Training auction. The auction closed at $9,300 (including 15% buy. prem.).
• Subsequently, in June ’01, we were contacted by another collector who had yet a 3rd Grey Flannel jersey, this one a size 46 (LOA # M.N. 949B, 7/10/1995). On 9/3/01, Andy Imperato of GF was advised of the apparent existence of 4 jerseys—three authenticated/sold by GF, and one at the Pro Football Hall of Fame
• In Aug 2002, American Memorabilia (AMI) offers one of this style jersey (size 48, unautographed, described as showing, “light QB wear” by authenticator Lou Lampson). The auction closes on 9/2/02, selling at $4,637, including 15% buy. prem.
• In Oct 2004, AMI offers the 2nd Elway jersey of this style (size 48, autographed/pers (To Tom) in black, described as showing, “Awesome quarterback wear--check out the armpits in particular. There's heavy pilling…” by authenticator Lou Lampson dba 100% Authentic). The auction closed on 4/7/05, selling at $6,335, including 15% buy. prem. (See http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=10169). Contacting after the appearance of their 2nd jersey of this style was offered, AMI rep stated that, “we have to go by our authenticator’s opinion”.
• In May 2005, ESC posts an article at its web site entitled, “Unique” Elway Jerseys Abound (see http://endzone.pscoggin.com/newsarch.htm) speculating that “…at least some of these jerseys may have originated from a lot that was created though a business partnership. In 1995 a Denver-area memorabilia dealer was contacted about purchasing the remaining stock of unused Wilson Throwback jersey blanks. The dealer acquired these jersey blanks—the same exact blanks as those provided to the team—and had the entire lot made up as Elway jerseys with appropriate numbers and nameplates. The dealer entered into an agreement with John Elway whereas, in exchange for his autograph on a number of the jerseys, which the dealer would retain for sale, John would be given a quantity in payment for his services, to do with as he wished. It is suspected that these likely were given away as gifts, donated for charitable functions and the like, with no way of telling exactly how many of these may now be circulating accompanied by "game worn" credentials.”
• In Sep 2005, offers the 3rd Elway jersey of this style (size 48, autographed in silver, described as a, “lightly-used garment” by authenticator Lou Lampson dba 100% Authentic). The auction closed on 10/21/04, selling at $2,221, including 15% buy. Prem. (See http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=13525).
• It would appear that this same jersey was consigned for AMI’s auction ending 4/26/07 (see lot # 30 at http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=35956) and is described by authenticator Lou Lampson dba 100% Authentic, as exhibiting “Light quarterback wear, as would be expected from a style used for only a few games” (sic)
• Also, in March 2007, Vintage Authentics offered a similarly styled jersey, this time in a size 46 and also authenticated by Lampson (see http://pics1.edeal.com/images/p2/wl/vintageauth/docs/elway94gujerslou6-50001.jpg) who described the evidence of use for this jersey as “light apropos single game” (See http://vintageauthentics.at.truition... unbr=81766075)

Regards,

[CollectGU]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

FYI, I contacted AMI and offered them all the information posted, and theyhave agreed to pull this item from the current auction.

Regards,
Dave

[Eric]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

Dave

Thanks for following up on this and for giving us the info. What is more baffling is how mr lampson can keep writing letters on these jerseys if they were only used in 1 game.

I wonder what will happen to the one in vintage authentics...

[EndzoneSports]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

Steve J @ VA was also contacted via e-mail and he responded that he was "going to see Lou later today and will be discussing this with him." We'll see what transpires.

Regards,

[lund6771]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

VA, AMI and others that use Lampson must be in this business for the short term...any business that has a good plan would cut off ties with a supplier/vendor immediately if they consistantly screwed up...they must have many upset customers and upset customers are not repeat customers...I know that I'm not and I'm sure there is many more of you out there that feel the same...unfortunately, even though I hate to admit it, if something really sweet came along I'd probably go after it

everyone makes mistakes once in a while but this is a joke...the auction houses know exactly what's going on...they must have some great connections because 95% of their auctions contain the same garbage as the last one...and their next auction will continue the trend and so on...

by running an honest & ethical business is what will keep you around...I've seen MANY dealers come and go...at first, a lot of them ran a great gig, but unfortunately greed took over...I think that's the problem with today's auctions...GREED!!!!!...I believe that Meigray, without any comparison, runs the best customer-oriented business that I have seen in my 19 years of experience...100% guarentees, they take the time to fully inspect a product, and genuinly strive to make absolute, 100% sure, that they are selling an authentic product...

I believe that this site will be around for a long time, and we'll still be dealing with Meigray....but through historical trends, my money says that most of these auction houses, along with Lampson, won't be around in 5 years

[kingjammy24]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

"Steve J @ VA was also contacted via e-mail and he responded that he was "going to see Lou later today and will be discussing this with him." We'll see what transpires."

the elway is still up on VA. bidding is up to $1104. so i guess that's their answer?

both auction houses have lampson authenticate the same jersey and yet one decides to pull it and the other doesn't. it's a little confusing.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

"Steve J @ VA was also contacted via e-mail and he responded that he was "going to see Lou later today and will be discussing this with him."

actually, i'd like to see how that conversation went.

steve - "lou, there's a bit of a problem with this elway. it was only worn for 1 game and yet you've authenticated four of these. in fact, you authenticated one for AMI and then turned around and authenticated one for us in the same month!"

lou - "trust me victor, you've got THE ONE"

steve - "it's not victor. it's steve. from vintage authentics?"

lou - "vintage what? oh yeah, what's what i meant. steve. you've got it buddy"

steve - "well ok. but lou, the football hall of fame says they have the one"

lou - "football hall of fame?! what the hell do they know? do they have 8000 photos?"

steve - "well....probably. they.."

lou - "have they authenticated for the smithsonian? i'm LOU LAMPSON! do you hear me jensen? LAMPSON!!! the football hall of fame has nothing on me! say it with me steve, LAMPSON!!"

steve - "LAMPSON!!"

lou - "ok good. now don't bother me with these elways any more. pass me some of those 1989 bo jackson home jerseys. geezus i've done so many of these. who's this for again? vintage flannel?".

rudy.

[CollectGU]

Re: 2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

VA, AMI and others that use Lampson must be in this business for the short term...any business that has a good plan would cut off ties with a supplier/vendor immediately if they consistantly screwed up...they must have many upset customers and upset customers are not repeat customers...I know that I'm not and I'm sure there is many more of you out there that feel the same...unfortunately, even though I hate to admit it, if something really sweet came along I'd probably go after it

everyone makes mistakes once in a while but this is a joke...the auction houses know exactly what's going on...they must have some great connections because 95% of their auctions contain the same garbage as the last one...and their next auction will continue the trend and so on...

by running an honest & ethical business is what will keep you around...I've seen MANY dealers come and go...at first, a lot of them ran a great gig, but unfortunately greed took over...I think that's the problem with today's auctions...GREED!!!!!...I believe that Meigray, without any comparison, runs the best customer-oriented business that I have seen in my 19 years of experience...100% guarentees, they take the time to fully inspect a product, and genuinly strive to make absolute, 100% sure, that they are selling an authentic product...

I believe that this site will be around for a long time, and we'll still be dealing with Meigray....but through historical trends, my money says that most of these auction houses, along with Lampson, won't be around in 5 years

To be fair to the auction houses, we are looking at and complaining about 5- 10 jerseys, often the other 300 don't seem to have problems, and in fact there are some really nice items often offered. No excuse for the 5 -10 wrong, but if auction houses like AMI at least pull them when notified with a problem it means that things are changing for the better in the hobby.

Regards,
Dave