Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

[Eric]

Hey everyone

I am looking into a Kellen Winslow game used helmet being offered on Mastro

http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=70593&LastLotListing=Lot%20Search%20List&CurrentRow=1

Please note the facemask photo below which is in the listing. Also note the marks on the helmet. THIS IS FROM MASTRO'S CURRENT CATALOG


I asked for more photos of the winslow helmet to see what the numbers on the back looked like, because that can tell you what the facemask is supposed to look like. Look at the photos of the helmet Mastro sent me. Note the same marks on the helmet but a different facemask!!! THIS IS WHAT THE HELMET LOOKS LIKE SINCE THEY SHOT THE CATALOG

I asked them what the story was and they said it's the same facemask. Am I crazy?


Here's the thing. I know this helmet. I had the opportunity to buy it last year. When I inspected it, it looked like the helmet on the mastro site- 2 bars to the facemask.

I had a problem with it because the numbers on the back of the helmet dated it from the late 80s when winslow wore the three bar helmet. I couldn't find pics of winslow with the late 80s numbers and the early-mid 80s facemask.

I returned it to the person who sold it to me. Now it seems to have changed before my very eyes!

And before anyone makes a comment on there being a Lampson COA, don't jump the gun. There isn't one in Mastro's possession yet.

Lot Description


Offered here is a San Diego Chargers game used helmet worn by Hall of Famer Kellen Winslow during the 1980s. This blue Riddell helmet displays the Chargers' bolts insignia on opposing sides, and the raised strip running down the center of the helmet is flanked at the back by two yellow-and-blue vintage stickers denoting Winslow's number "80." A blue "CHARGERS" sticker has been adhered to the front side of the snubber, and also accompanying the item is the two-bar facemask and Riddell chin strap. The interior possesses its original foam padding and ear pads, and a sticker within the piece displays the helmet's size "7-1/8-7-3/4." Moderate game use is evident, as scuffing and light paint chips are visible throughout. After a brilliant, 9-year career with the Chargers, Kellen Winslow was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1995. LOA from Lou Lampson.

Am I Nuts?
Eric

[otismalibu]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

Maybe it's like American Idol and people can phone in and vote for the facemask they prefer.

I vote for a Theismann single.

[Eric]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

I honestly don't get it. I originally returned the helmet with 2 bars because it should have 3 bars and now it has 3 bars.

[otismalibu]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

I honestly don't get it. I originally returned the helmet with 2 bars because it should have 3 bars and now it has 3 bars.

Did you mention the reason you returned it? In the world of game worn memorabilia, if someone returns a 2 bar helmet because it should have 3 bars (and states that ), it wouldn't be terribly shocking to see it appear looking a little different in the future.

I think it could simply be authenticated as a "beautiful Getty adjusted helmet".

Sometimes it may take a few tries before an item is 100% Authentic.

[Eric]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

To be clear
(i just got an email about this)

Here's the order of what happened

Mastro put up photos of this helmet with 2 bar facemask.

I asked for more pics today. When they sent it, it now has 3 bar facemask.

It changed while in their possession.

The "higher ups" are apparently looking into it

Eric

[ChrisCavalier]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

And before anyone makes a comment on there being a Lampson COA, don't jump the gun. There isn't one in Mastro's possession yet.

Hey Eric,

Just so I'm clear, are you saying that Mastros doesn't have the Lampson LOA? I may be misunderstanding this because I noticed the Mastros description states "LOA from Lou Lampson".

Thanks in advance for the reply.

Sincerely,
Chris

[Eric]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

I was told the Lampson LOA is not in yet. Sounds like it exists.

Mastro says the LOA states what's in the write up. If that's true, then that would mean the letter is about a 2 bar facemask, and not a 3 bar facemask.

I don't know what any of this is about, but I am really really steamed.

Eric

[Eric]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

Here are two other photos from the reverse side- both photos are from mastro.

I'd like opinions on the position of the screw on the side
Thanks
Eric

[Eric]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

The Kellen Winslow helmet has 4 bids and is up to $440

I have not heard what the higher ups have to say about it, and I have asked for in focus shots of the sides and front of the helmet.

[Eric]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

Here's a non-update update. After following up I have been told 1) to be patient (which is very hard to do with something as troubling as this) and 2) Mastro has contacted their helmet expert and they have yet to hear back.

No word yet on the photos I asked for.

Meanwhile it's up to 8 bids and $587.

Eric

[kingjammy24]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

why a "helmet expert"? you're not so much disputing the legitimacy of the facemask as much as simply saying it literally changed overnight.
all they need is someone with a) the gift the eyesight b) the cognitive ability to tell the difference between 2 bars and 3 bars. they need a "helmet expert" to tell them that one picture has 2 bars and the other picture has 3 bars? what are they..unionized?

rudy.

[Eric]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

Here's the official word from Mastro

1) The helmet is from the Duke Hott collection. It came in over a year ago.

(Note- this is what was told to me when I was offered the helmet last year and rejected it because the facemask was wrong)

2) The helmet was photographed prior to authentication taking place

(Note- yesterday i was told that the information in the item description describing a two bar mask was the same info on the authentication letter)

3) Lou Lampson looked at the helmet and said the shell was correct for Kellen Winslow but the mask was incorrect.

(Note- this isn't exactly the case. For the record, when I was offered the helmet the emails, which I still have, say Lou looked at it and it's a good helmet. The only reason he determined that the mask was incorrect is because that was my reason for rejecting the helmet.)

Specifically Lampson said "a very good Winslow representation.It’s a 1985-86 era. All original with triple color number 80 identifiers on the back of the helmet. Nice wear throughout, gold facemask."

4) According to Mastro, since it was determined the facemask was wrong, Mr. Lampson "found the correct mask to replace it with"

(Note- I didn't know you could do that)
Eric

[otismalibu]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

That's beyond pathetic.

Someone needs a Pacman-type suspension.

I wonder how often Lou has to "find the correct tag to replace it with".

[kingjammy24]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

"4) According to Mastro, since it was determined the facemask was wrong, Mr. Lampson "found the correct mask to replace it with"



had you not engaged them, would anyone know the facemask was a replacement? apparently mastro didn't even know at first. the description makes no mention of a restored facemask.

if lou authenticates a jersey and finds the tagging is wrong, does he replace it with the correct tagging?

frightening lou, frightening.

rudy.

[RobSteinmetz]

Re: Mastro Winslow Helmet- Am I Nuts?

Eric,

Does Mastro see anything wrong with Lou's decision to swap out the face mask? How do they plan to proceed?