Rafael Palmeiro: Was he treated fairly?

[kingjammy24]

i don't understand this negative connotation with rats. remind me again, where is the ill in exposing unethical or illegal behavior? should sherron watkins or jeffrey wigand have kept their mouths shut? how are they different than canseco? if there are unethical things going on, would you prefer to have noone speak up? sounds like the enron training course.

thank goodness mcgwire didn't finger anyone else. baseball and the public are much better off having it kept secret. canseco's admissions were a huge catalyst in bringing about baseball's positive reforms. mcgwire's silence, on the other hand, has not benefitted anyone but himself and the players he was covering.

the only instance where being a rat is considered a bad thing is amongst those who stand to lose if their illicit dealings are revealed.

rudy.

[David]

Duly note that, beyond the standard 10 day suspension for testing positive, no one's done anything to Palmeiro. Palmeiro did come back and played for the Orioles after the suspension was finished. He soon after quit or retired by his own choice, as he didn't like the booing-- though obviously lots of players are booed (ask Alex Rodriguez).

Beyond the boo birds, the only punishment he got was being prevented from playing 10 games. Many would say, if anything, he go off awfully easy. Even by today's standard 50 game for first positive, he got a short supension.

[kingjammy24]

david,

i agree with your post and find that it alludes to a larger issue; the real benefits vs the risk/consequences of using steroids in major league baseball. palmeiro made over $89mm in his career. for many, especially those coming from impoverished backgrounds, the possibility of money like that far outweighs any suspensions or even expulsions from baseball.

who cares about a 10, 20, 50, or 100 game suspension if you can collect on a $15mm contract? the 2 aren't even in the same ballpark. you're looking at being set for life vs the relatively trivial "punishment" of suspensions, expulsions, and not getting into the hall of fame. i'm not sure how heavily any of those weigh on a person as they're enjoying a mai tai on their palatial caribbean estate. set for life at age 30.

in a way, it's easy to see how some see steroids as justified. in light of the money to be made, the consequences are trivial. even if you get booted out of baseball permanently, it's hardly a big deal as you walk away with millions, laughing all the way to the bank.

rudy.

[sportscentury]

i don't understand this negative connotation with rats. remind me again, where is the ill in exposing unethical or illegal behavior? should sherron watkins or jeffrey wigand have kept their mouths shut? how are they different than canseco? if there are unethical things going on, would you prefer to have noone speak up? sounds like the enron training course.

thank goodness mcgwire didn't finger anyone else. baseball and the public are much better off having it kept secret. canseco's admissions were a huge catalyst in bringing about baseball's positive reforms. mcgwire's silence, on the other hand, has not benefitted anyone but himself and the players he was covering.

the only instance where being a rat is considered a bad thing is amongst those who stand to lose if their illicit dealings are revealed.

rudy.

Rudy,

Let me go out on a limb here and guess that you haven't been involved in team sports much. Teammates place incredibly high value on trust - they see each other as brothers, as family. It's hard to trust a guy who will sell you out. David asked what was different about Raffy (as opposed to Giambi, for example) in terms of why Raffy did not get picked up by a team and get a second chance. The answer is that he sold out one of his brothers, and by doing so, sold out his entire team. If I were a GM, you couldn't pay me to pick him up.

Reid

[metsbats]

I have to agree that it's Palmiero's been blacklisted and that's the main reason he's not back. If you look at the history of players given a second chance and the reasons they were out of baseball in the first place none of them did what Palmeiro did when he broke the code of silence. And we are talking about guys who took illegal drugs, alcoholics,etc.

So whether the story he is telling is true or not became irrelevant and fell on deaf ears after the damage was done.

Given Palmiero's numbers steroids or no steriods I now believe he would have been given a second chance if he didn't break the code of silence of what goes on in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse.

David

[kingjammy24]

reid,

i understand what happened to palmeiro. my original point didn't debate what happened but whether it was "right". even with your impressive involvement in team sports, i have to think that even you feel that there's a limit to what stays in the clubhouse; the expectation of trust can only go so far in light of the severity of the crimes. apparently, for you steroids don't reach that breaking point. for others, they do.

noone is stupid enough to think that being a teammate is carte blanche for being able to do anything and have it kept quiet. even "brothers" have limits.

canseco was blacklisted but it's hard to argue that, ultimately, what he did wasn't a good thing.

"It's hard to trust a guy who will sell you out"

it's even harder to trust a guy who's engaging in unethical behavior.

rudy.

[David]

What I found ludicrous about MLB and the old 10 day suspension is that steroids stays in your body for far longer than 10 days, often months. The player's steroids built bulk, strength and speed doesn't disappear in 10 days. In other words, MLB knowingly allowed players benefiting from steroids to play baseball. It can be reasonably argued that the 50 day suspension isn't much different.

[sportscentury]

reid,

i understand what happened to palmeiro. my original point didn't debate what happened but whether it was "right". even with your impressive involvement in team sports, i have to think that even you feel that there's a limit to what stays in the clubhouse; the expectation of trust can only go so far in light of the severity of the crimes. apparently, for you steroids don't reach that breaking point. for others, they do.

noone is stupid enough to think that being a teammate is carte blanche for being able to do anything and have it kept quiet. even "brothers" have limits.

canseco was blacklisted but it's hard to argue that, ultimately, what he did wasn't a good thing.

"It's hard to trust a guy who will sell you out"

it's even harder to trust a guy who's engaging in unethical behavior.

rudy.

Rudy,

I didn't mean to offend or upset you, I'm sorry.

Best,
Reid

[cjclong]

One thing that makes the whole steroid question a problem is trying to figure out how much the use may have impacted a player's performance. Assuming that Palmeiro was an intentional user at some time (and there was an interesting article by a while back by a writer who initially believed Palmeiro was 100% lying and after looking at all the facts came to believe his denial of intentional use just might be true) then how much did it enhance his performance. Palmeiro never fit the traditional profile of a steroid user. He only had about a 10 pound weight gain over his career which is normal for a man going from his early 20's to middle 30's, never had a big homerun spike hitting between 39 to 47 playing in home ballparks favorable to lefthanded hitters. He didn't hit tape measure homeruns relying on what other players described as a "sweet swing" to pull the ball. He wound up with 569 homeruns and I think its safe to say he would have hit more than 500 whether he used steroids or not. Assuming they used how much difference did it make to McGuire, Sosa Bonds, etc? Some people treat Bonds as without steroids he would be nothing. But without his eyesight, reflexes, hand eye cordination, etc. he and Arnold Schwarzennegger would have the same number of homeruns. This is a little off the original question, and isn't intended to absolve players who used steroids, but I think that while they gave some players some advantage we exaggerate their impact on the game. Possibly the longest major league homerun meaured was at 565 feet hit by Mickey Mantle and not one of the current playrs suspected of steroid use.

[TNTtoys]

Possibly the longest major league homerun meaured was at 565 feet hit by Mickey Mantle and not one of the current playrs suspected of steroid use.

Yes, the longest home run in history was hit by Mantle... but as for the measurement, I think you may be mistaken. The longest home run ever hit (according to Broadway Rick in his classic description of "Mantle pants") was measured at 550 yards, some 985 feet longer than any of us may have previously thought.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1954-55-Mickey-M...QQcmdZViewItem

(sorry, couldn't resist the opportunity to revisit a classic belly laugh)