Question for the community

[Marlins2003]

please don't take this personally but i really must be missing something here - if you knew such bats were readily available at a going rate of $250-$300, then why would you even bother asking the dealer for proof of his claims? why not just a) tell the dealer you've been collecting gu bats for years b) you are interested in the bat he has for sale c) point him to the "enough available" bats going for $250-$300 and c) tell him if he's willing to come close to these going rates you'll take the bat.

i mean, frankly, i'm surprised the dealer didn't ask you why you were wasting his time asking for supporting evidence of his claims if such a bat was so readily available at a much cheaper price elsewhere - know what i mean?

I hear you, and take no offense. I went that road early on in the negotiating process.

I still stand my what I have said all along. For arguements sake, in this particular hobby (game used collecting) a certain amount of trust has to be built between buyer and seller. I am sure that each of us here has atleast one seller that we wouldn't hesitate to buy from sight unseen. I know I have three such sellers. So when a seller is caught in a blatant bold faced lie, it becomes more of an integrity issue that an issue of whether or not I want the item.

[kingjammy24]

"..the seller lied, that is clear. Their over the top reaction was evidence of that...So when a seller is caught in a blatant bold faced lie.."

i find it ludicrous that an agitated response is what constitutes "clear evidence of a blatant, bold faced lie". it sounds to me like the seller perceived you as someone who wouldn't buy the bat regardless of what data was presented. answer this honestly: if the seller had provided you with photocopies of previous sales of the bat at $400-500 each, would you have bought the bat? it likely would've turned into a debate over whose data was more reliable. very few have the patience to engage in swap meet antics. their reluctance to do is hardly "clear evidence of a blatant lie" and to say otherwise borders on libel.

you were looking for a $200-300 bat. his wasn't that price. rather than moving on and not wasting his time, you decided to enter into a debate about FMV and he likely didn't have the patience. anyway, you wanted past sales of cabrera bats at $400-$500. here you go. now that you have these, i trust that you'll go back and buy his bat?

$678
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=26351

$421
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=32368

$1758
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=33659

if you don't want to pay a certain price, don't. to say that because someone lost their patience in dealing with you means they "clearly lied" is nothing but reckless conjecture.

rudy.

[Marlins2003]

"..the seller lied, that is clear. Their over the top reaction was evidence of that...So when a seller is caught in a blatant bold faced lie.."

i find it ludicrous that an agitated response is what constitutes "clear evidence of a blatant, bold faced lie". it sounds to me like the seller perceived you as someone who wouldn't buy the bat regardless of what data was presented. answer this honestly: if the seller had provided you with photocopies of previous sales of the bat at $400-500 each, would you have bought the bat? it likely would've turned into a debate over whose data was more reliable. very few have the patience to engage in swap meet antics. their reluctance to do is hardly "clear evidence of a blatant lie" and to say otherwise borders on libel.

you were looking for a $200-300 bat. his wasn't that price. rather than moving on and not wasting his time, you decided to enter into a debate about FMV and he likely didn't have the patience. anyway, you wanted past sales of cabrera bats at $400-$500. here you go. now that you have these, i trust that you'll go back and buy his bat?

$678
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=26351

$421
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=32368

$1758
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=33659

if you don't want to pay a certain price, don't. to say that because someone lost their patience in dealing with you means they "clearly lied" is nothing but reckless conjecture.

rudy.

First, you should not make assupmptions on my character without knowing me.

Secondly, had your links showed conclusively that I was wrong with my market prices that would have been one thing.

You showed me links that I seen a dozen times over. 2 auto'd bats and a PSA/DNA graded 8 bat. Of course they will sell higher than a simple gu bat with no COA or LOA from a major name like PSA. Neither of which show pricing for a plain old gu bat, non autographed, non graded.

This changes nothing. I don't know how to make that much clearer. Had you showed me a consistant record (3 closed auctions would be sufficient) of his plain old gu bats selling for $400+ then I would be wrong in what I consider to be his gu bat price.

And yes, if that were the case I would immediately hit the BIN on the bat that originally started this debate. I like the bat, just not the gauged price.

As it stands now, I still have no interest for this particular bat, from this particular seller due to the fact that the price is clearly $200 over current maket value.

I'm, truly sorry if I'm like some of you other collectors who have larger than life egos and will buy anything at any price just to say "I own it". lol That's juvenile and perhaps a bit OCD.

First and foremost, I make sure that I am happy with every purchase I make. And that I pay the price that something is worth, not the price that a greedy seller wants. I've been in this game far too long.

I do appreciate though, in your defense of the seller (to which it is clear atleast you are aware of who they are) that you try to turn the tables on me. This was the shark attack mentality I was waiting for.

They lie, they are rude and obnoxious in their responses to me yet you try to make me out to be the bad guy.

Very nice. lol

Well sir, I have enjoyed this little debate if you will. In the end I stand my what I have said, the market value is $250-$300 for non-momentous bats such as All Star game, HR bats etc

The seller is free to charge what they want, it is their item. But to lie in doing so, that is low and pathethic.

As I look over at my multitude of bats, several gu jerseys and two batting helmets I can be pleased with every purchase. I know that each is authentic and that I paid a fair and reasonable price for each. I hope that you can say the same for your collectibles.

[both-teams-played-hard]

That's juvenile and perhaps a bit OCD.

Yes. I agree. That is a very big part of the problem!

[kingjammy24]

"Of course they will sell higher than a simple gu bat with no COA or LOA from a major name like PSA. Neither of which show pricing for a plain old gu bat, non autographed, non graded."

$678 = $200-$300 for the bat, $478-$378 for the PSA/DNA authentication
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=26351

$1758 = $200-$300 for the bat, $478-$378 for the PSA/DNA authentication, leaving $1080 for the cabrera autograph.
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=33659

right. those numbers definitely make sense. if you believe $378-$478 is the going rate for Taube to authenticate your $200-$300 bat, please let me know. i can have your bat authenticated by him for only $250. just make the check out to me.

to answer your original question:

"..is the seller right in ..claiming to be highly insulted..because i called them a liar"

yes.

rudy.

[BPH32]

Hello sports fans,
I am the guy which this "person" is talking about. I wanted to let the dust settle a little before responding, hopefully calm down a little and see how deep he would dig himself. So far he has called me a liar (more than once), a swindler, dishonest, a child (in an email), questioned my gender (again in an email), greedy (well maybe I am a little), low and pathetic. Did I leave anything out ?
No matter what he says this is all because I wouldn't sell him a bat at the price he wants to pay. All of this bull over a 50.00 dollar difference of opinion on a bat. Through out this potential transaction I was not rude, I sent him pictures, I answered questions, I reduced my price and I wanted to sell him the bat until he called my integrity into question. I told him no to his offer numerous times but he would not give up and it did no good at all ( I don't know how many emails he sent but it was several and I was definitely loosing patience). I considered the deal dead. During this time he first said Cabrera bats were worth no more than around 250.00 then that he had never seen one sell for more than 300.00 then that they were worth no more than 300.00-350.00 (for a regular bat). Was he trying to mislead me on values to get me to lower my price ? You decide. To his main point my saying that I had sold Cabrera bats in the 400.00-500.00 price range ( I actually sold one for 550.00 and one for 645.00 over the years) was in response to his saying he had never seen one sell for over 300.00 not to get him to pay my price as he had said numerous times he would not and by this point I would have cut up the bat into wood chips before selling it to him. I suggested that he be patient and maybe he would find one in his price range and that I didn't doubt it that he could. If he took it differently than I intended, which I doubt, then he was just plain wrong. He asked me to prove it by producing auction results, which I wouldn't have done anyway, but none of the ones I sold were in auctions at least not in the last year or so that I can remember. We also sell from our website and through Sports Collectors Digest which I pointed out to him. So what should I do after this person has called me a liar waste more time on a dead deal by going back through my order books for the last 5 years to find an order then give him the guys name and phone number so he can pester them. No I won't do that to my customers. If people think that is a problem or that I am "hiding" something so be it. I don't owe this guy a thing.
I did nothing wrong in this deal at all. I would hope most people would take my word on something but if you want to believe this guy then that is your choice. End of story and my last comment on it at least in this venue.
Mr. Kim Alan Stigall
Ball Park Heroes

[sarahsdad]

Mr. Stigall:
Thank you for taking the time to point out the other side of the story. I have read this banter back and forth and once I found out that you were the "Liar" that is all it took for me. I have had several dealings with you and have discussed you, as a dealer, with other collectors. And most, if not all of those I have had discussions with all agree on one thing: You have more credibility in this hobby then most. You are fair. You are honest. You certainly cannot please everyone and I know firsthand that you will do whatever you can to make a deal happen. I enjoy doing business with you and would not hesitate to make a purchase from you.
Sarahsdad

[eGameUsed]

Kim,

Sounds like this individual has a lot to learn about the business side of the hobby. I think it is fair to negotiate and "wheel-and-deal," but this guy took it to far. He has no idea of your cost on the item, your overhead, eBay seller fees, advertising fees, etc.

Marlins2003,

Why don't you post your name or contact information on your posts? Also, have you ever heard the phrase "An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay." There is no price guide for game used memorabilia. BTW, I have a brand new, unused Cabrera bat I will sell you for $200. I also have a heaily used, autographed model, with some inscriptions written around the Zinger logo that I will sell for $800. Are you interested!

That is all for my opinion!

[sarahsdad]

Chris:
I may be interested in the bat. please provide details.
Sarahsdad

[sarahsdad]

The unused bat. Sorry,
Sarahsdad