Staubach Helmet on Ebay

[mvandor]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROGER-STAUBACH-A...QQcmdZViewItem

Aeneas, interested in your comments on this supposed Staubach lid, seems like a very easy one to knockoff and I believe you had some questions re: this seller on another item.

[beantown]

aeneas01...I would like to hear your comments on that as well...also have another helmet that has hit Ebay....Ray Lewis Ravens helmet...the seller has been discussed before....what are your thoughts?

http://cgi.ebay.com/RAY-LEWIS-RAVENS...QQcmdZViewItem

[aeneas01]

yeah, i saw the helmet a few days go and was going to start a thread about it - as a matter of fact, i've been chatting with dalcowbill about it via emails...

fwiw, dalcowbill is an enigma as far as i'm concerned - he really does strike me as a nice, likable guy and doesn't seem to get defensive or ugly when the authenticity of his items are questioned (unlike others i've come across). but, oth, his explanations just don't hold up. is he deliberately trying to mislead? hard to tell...

as far as the staubach helmet is concerned, imo there are far too many problems with it for it to be considered the real deal.

1. staubach only wore a riddell suspension helmet during his first four years in the league (1969-1972). in 1973 he switched to a clear-shell max pro which he continued to wear for the remainder of his career. given that dalcowbill's helmet is date stamped 1975 (i.e., manufactured in 1975) i just don't see how it could have ever belonged to staubach let alone been worn by him.

2. the wire photo (nabbed from getty) dalcowbill decided to use in his ad shows staubach wearing a suspension helmet and is dated 1975. but, as is often the case with many wire photos, it's dated incorrectly - this particular photo is actually from the 1971 playoff game between the vikes and boys. staubach can be clearly seen wearing his clear-shell max pro during the 1975 boys/vikes playoff game in nfl film's "the dallas cowboys - the complete history".

3. even if dalcowbill's helmet was date stamped correctly, it would still not be accurate given that it's not fitted with the custom exra-wide nose snubber staubach and other cowboys (hill, renfro, etc.) wore during this period. the only time staubach wore a riddell suspension helmet with this type of stock nose snubber was during his rookie (1969) season - but it was a pre-1970 suspension helmet which had a gray snubber, not a white one (riddell switched from gray to white rubber in 1970).

4. dalcowbill suggested in one of his emails to me that perhaps staubach went back to the suspension helmet for a game or two in 1975. while i guess anything's possible, i've never seen any evidence of this nor does it strike me as at all likely - especially given that he had been wearing his max pro for three years by the time the end of the 1975 season rolled around.

5. dalcowbill also told me that the staubach lettering on the dymo tape was positioned correctly (bottom to top) on his helmet and that the tape on the game used staubach helmet featured at helmet hut was incorrect (top to bottom) and, therefore, the helmet hut helmet was suspect. he stated:

"i have never seen on a game worn cowboys helmet the dymo tape name starts from the top and goes down like on the helmet hut helmet- it always starts from the bottom of the helmet and goes up"

this simply isn't correct - at least this wasn't the case during the '60s and early '70s (before bucky buchanan took over as equipment manager). here's a game photo of lilly with the tape in the same position as the staubach helmet at helmet hut.



imo this 1975 helmet was intentionally made to look like staubach's circa 1969-1972 helmet - i also believe that the dymo tape was carefully prepared using helme hut's game used staubach lid as a template. further, i wouldn't be surprised to discover that the unused facemask holes appearing on dalcowbill's helmet were hand drilled (instead of factory drilled as was the case with the cowboys' helmets of the '60s early '70s (per helmet hut)) in an effort to make this helmet match staubach's game used lid.

from a couple of dalcowbill's emails to me:

"i've had this helmet quite a long time. i don't remember what year i got it or who i got it from..."

"as i said i've had this helmet for years and i doubt very seriuosly that someone would try to fake it way back then?"

[jayt1234]

This guy (dalcowbill) buys up so much Cowboys GU equipment, and then sells at a pretty high mark up....His You can look up most of his in stock helmets & uniform items on Heritage Auctions to see what he paid for them....This past spring he had a TO, Julius Jones, Demarcus Ware & Terry Glenn Helmet which all appeared to have sold....Not sure if he picked them up from GUE because they were all clearly 2006 helmets, and were not auctioned at Heritage Auctions...Anyway what is your opinion on the Ray Lewis helmet?

[lund6771]

I came across that guy in the mid 90's...he sold me almost 20 jerseys of the cowboys that were not game used...I think I bought them for around $200 each, but they were tagged like a game used jersey...he had Southland's, Russell's...sewn on, screened on...etc...but all of them were not game used...I asked him back then if he could get any game used stuff and he said no...

what concerns me is that he has been selling Cowboys stuff for a long time and still has older stuff as well...difference now is that everything is game used...I would like to see some of his stuff with my own eyes....a trained eye can spot fake wear a mile away

[aeneas01]

I came across that guy in the mid 90's...he sold me almost 20 jerseys of the cowboys that were not game used...I think I bought them for around $200 each, but they were tagged like a game used jersey...he had Southland's, Russell's...sewn on, screened on...etc...but all of them were not game used...I asked him back then if he could get any game used stuff and he said no...

what concerns me is that he has been selling Cowboys stuff for a long time and still has older stuff as well...difference now is that everything is game used...I would like to see some of his stuff with my own eyes....a trained eye can spot fake wear a mile away

well, this isn't very encouraging - to say the least....

and, as i've mentioned before, i'm not into "modern" helmets so i haven't taken a close look at his circa 2000 lids - but, fwiw, it does strike me that he seems to get his hands on an inordinate number of "game used" helmets once belonging to high-profile cowboys players...

my problem with this seller is:

1. his staubach helmet is not consistent with the helmet staubach wore in 1975 - he is aware of this but can offer no meaningful information regarding the helmet's provenance, offers only weak rebuttals and continues to insist that it's an authentic "game used" helmet once belonging to and worn by staubach. further, imo, this helmet appears to be intentionally doctored in an effort to match staubach's circa 1970-1972 helmet.

2. his "game used" drew pearson is not at all consistent with what drew pearson actually wore. pearson wore a suspension helmet throught his career, not a cell helmet which is what dalcowbill is selling. yet, again, he is aware of this and can offer no meaningful information regarding the helmet's provenance and offers only weak rebuttals while continuing to insist that it's an authentic "game used" helmet once belonging to and worn by pearson.

3. he once listed a vintage, authentic game used cowboys on ebay which was previously sold at one of the major sports memorabilia auction houses. although this was an excellent, authentic game used helmet it had a large crack in it which was pointed out in the original auction through text and photos. when dalcowbill listed the helmet on ebay he did not mention the crack nor did he include, among the many photos he provided in his ad, a photo which showed this crack.

as far as the ray lewis helmet is concerned, the only opinion i have on it is that it's another example of a modern helmet that's very easy to replicate - knowing this, i'm not sure why someone would pay "game used" dollars for it unless the seller had a stellar reputation and history of delivering the real goods...

[aeneas01]

guess no one was very interested in dropping $500 for a reproduction despite the seller claiming it was authentic - the auction has ended as it should have, quietly with no bids...

[aeneas01]

dalcowbill has his "game used" staubach helmet back on ebay and this time it comes with a letter of authenticity from none other than staubach himself.

it seems that dalcowbill typed up a letter describing the helmet and had his buddy take it and the helmet to a signing where staubach was appearing . and, according to dalcowbill's ebay ad, not only did staubach sign the helmet but he also screached with glee 'this was my helmet!" and eagerly signed the letter of authenticity as well!

if staubach did indeed sign these items, i wonder if he was first informed that the helmet he was signing and authenticating was a 1975 riddell issue, an issue that came out 3 years after he had stopped wearing suspension helmets in favor of maxpro clearshells.

[cohibasmoker]

Looks like the forum members beat me to the punch.

Off the subject, Richard thanks for your efforts in authicating my Steelers helmets. Along with Curtis at the Helemt Hut, I could not have done it without you guys.

Jim

[mvandor]

dalcowbill has his "game used" staubach helmet back on ebay and this time it comes with a letter of authenticity from none other than staubach himself.

it seems that dalcowbill typed up a letter describing the helmet and had his buddy take it and the helmet to a signing where staubach was appearing . and, according to dalcowbill's ebay ad, not only did staubach sign the helmet but he also screached with glee 'this was my helmet!" and eagerly signed the letter of authenticity as well!

if staubach did indeed sign these items, i wonder if he was first informed that the helmet he was signing and authenticating was a 1975 riddell issue, an issue that came out 3 years after he had stopped wearing suspension helmets in favor of maxpro clearshells.

Certainly appears Staubach signed it. Assuming seller showed him evidence he obtained it from the Cowboys (which he may have) and the helmet LOOKED exactly like what Roger wore, he might have been accomodating or actually persuaded it was his. Doubt he'd have searched for a date stamp.