Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

[rose14]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

King, I am glad this is getting attention and maybe Mastros will put integrity over the all mighty dollar and finally quit using Lou Lampson. In regards to the Louisville Griffith jersey, I never spoke with Doug Allen as all of my converstations were with Brian Marren.

What I am mistified about is Doug Allen's response on why MEARS would not sign off on the Jordan shooting shirt, "I mistakingly thought your lack of comfort was due to the fact that you were not comfortable with writing letters on items that fall so far outside of the mainstream as opposed to substantive concerns about the actual item" What the hell is that? It's funny that Doug was still not aware of this even though Dave Bushing and Troy Kinunen sat and ate at the same table with him and Bill Mastro at the live auction before the auction even started. I just wonder what was going through Troy and Dave's mind while they sat in the back of the balcony at the House of Blues while the fake Jordan jersey was selling for $11,000.

[grandpahoo]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

The amount of ass-covering taking place relating to this jersey is awesome.

[34swtns]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

Makes you wonder where they came up with the vintage material for the numbers, etc. There are some pretty crafty forgers out there.

Off the subject but, grandpahoo, I got your message and it appears that you're not set up to receive replies. In any event, the Herman Moore gamer you inquired about was sold last year. Sorry, but keep looking, they're out there!

[yankees159]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

Fantastic work by GUU! My question is why would anyone still do business with Mastronet? I know I am boycotting them, that's the only way things are going to change.

TJ

[camarokids]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

I had to put my boots on while reading the threads about this forgery and the explanation on NOT receiving MEARS letter .

[kingjammy24]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

the jordan auction began on 07/23 and ended on 08/03.

troy: "The next day or so, which was approximately June 27th, I recall speaking with Doug Allen via phone. At that point I told him I was 100% convinced that there had been a name change and told him so. I also believe at that point Doug asked me if the jersey could have been good. I do not remember exactly how I replied, but I said something to the effect, that "there is definitely a name change, but I will continue researching it to see if it was a vintage name change."

doug: "The first time I had been informed about potential issues with the shirt was on August 2nd"

---- according to troy, through the entire month of july, doug allen was aware that the shirt had had a name change.

doug: "Unfortunately we never received your "letter" which explained the details of the name change and the reason you were not comfortable apining on the shirt. If I had known this I would have immediately pulled it from the auction.

---- again, doug knew about the name change for the entire month of july via to a phone call from troy.

doug: "I had gotten the message from my guys that you "were not comfortable signing off on it" so I told them to go ahead and run it with the Lou Lampson letter.."

---- how did mastro's guys know to tell doug that mears wasn't signing off on it if they "never received the letter"? did mears call mastro and tell them? if so, then upon learning that mears wouldn't be signing off, why did mastro not immediately ask why? when doug got the message that one of his items wouldn't be getting a mears letter, he never asked why? the lack of a mears signoff on the ted williams jersey was such a huge deal to doug that he was compelled to explain it in detail over several paragraphs. yet on the jordan shirt he doesn't receive a mears signoff and doesn't even bother to inquire as to the reasons?

doug: "I mistakingly thought your lack of comfort was due to the fact that you were not comfortable with writing letters on items that fall so far outside of the mainstream as opposed to substantive concerns about the actual item."

---- the specific reason for mears' lack of comfort was relayed to directly to doug from troy on approx june 27.

troy: "That is the last time I recall specifically speaking with Doug about the jersey. Some more time passed and I did not uncover any more additional information on the jersey and published the final Letter of Opinion which deemed the item as unable to authenticate. Approximately 10 days before the live auction all letters were produced including the unable to authenticate Jordan warm-up jacket LOO and provided to Mastro Auctions."

---- mastro received all of the other mears letters except for the jordan letter which mysteriously disappeared? was the jordan letter sent all by itself in a separate shipment? eric's email to doug was never received and neither was the mears letter. astonishing that these 2 things which would've prematurely ended an $11k auction somehow vanished.

when the auction began in july, i am curious why mears not did immediately notice that the jordan letter that they had sent to mastro was not posted with the shirt? if the letter was sent out prior to the start of the auction and 3 days into the auction it's still not posted, how did mears not immediately contact mastro and ask them why the letter isn't posted? after all, according to mears, it's a stipulation of their auction house contract that the auction house post any and all LOOs that they issue on an item. from day 1 mastro didn't do this on the jordan item and mears never noticed and picked up the phone to ask why the letter wasn't posted/why the contract has been breached?

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see more here: http://www.network54.com/Forum/47141...nal+procedures

doug's disregard on the griffith jersey issue combined with the illogical gaps in his story on the jordan shirt make me personally think that had the ny daily news and fbi not gotten involved, the jordan sale would've been executed to completion.

doug was pretty tightlipped with eric on the issue of who really owned the winslow helmet but when the jordan issue was picked up by the daily news and fbi, all of a sudden doug does the "i'm very concerned!" two-step and gives eric his cell number? where was this concern, diligence and chattiness on the griffith jersey and winslow helmet? apparently doug only likes to dance in the spotlight.

after reading "The Card" it's apparent to me why doug is such a great fit for mastro. bill must be beaming at his protege. both of them seem to have a real passion for "maximizing grades" and "preparing items". between the two of them though, i'm guessing doug's got better dance moves.

rudy.

[Eric]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

I received a response from Doug Allen regarding this matter. Here is the entire text of the email printed here with Doug's permission.


Eric,

In response to your inquiry I do not recall having a phone conversation with Troy regarding this shirt any time prior to the auction. I do recall Eric on my staff communicating the fact that MEARS was not comfortable authenticating the shirt but I don't remember a direct conversation with Troy.

Troy's post stated "This may have led to the decision to have Lou Lampson offer his opinion on the jersey." This is absolutely not the case. Most vintage basketball and football we auction also include an LOA from Lou Lampson as evidenced by the current auction. Lampson authenticated the shirt approximately one week prior to MEARS coming in to authenticate as they perform this work independently. That being said it is interesting to note that the high bidder on the item would actually have still purchased it with MEARS "unable to authenticate" letter as he indicated it would not be unusual for a college jersey to have a name change. This didn't bother the bidder. The primary issue for this shirt was the fact that the #2 on the jersey appears to have been altered. Unfortunately this alteration was not identified by Lampson or MEARS…I detected it after I returned from the National when I personally examined the numbers on a light table. I then informed MEARS of the fact that it was much more than a presumed name change, which could have been vintage. I then turned the jersey over to MEARS for further examination.

I have copied Troy on this as I have the utmost respect for the work they do and that is why I returned the shirt to them for further examination.

I trust this is responsive to your question.

Regards,
Doug

[earlywynnfan]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

See everybody!! We've been piling on Doug, and here, he saved the day!!


Ken

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

Eric
Thanks for posting the e-mail.
As I've posted before: Carolina players were allowed to keep their jerseys and warm ups at season's end. Recycling was not done. The UNC equipment manager said that Michael still has his shooting shirt. Why does the jersey need to be re-examined? This forum as already PROVEN the infamous Jordan to be a fake, phony, fabricated, forgery. All that needs to be debated is, "who will do the honor of destroying this jersey?" or better yet, "who will restore this jersey back to number '33' with 'S-M-I-T-H' on the back?"
I'm glad someone from Mastro responded. Its funny how people want to do so much research, AFTER the FBI comes knockin'.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

"..it is interesting to note that the high bidder on the item would actually have still purchased it with MEARS "unable to authenticate" letter as he indicated it would not be unusual for a college jersey to have a name change. This didn't bother the bidder."

i'm assuming the bidder indicated this without being told that UNC's equipment manager stated shirts weren't recycled and that jordan has his shooting shirt? when bidders lack crucial information, they're hardly able to make an informed decision. i'm unsure what doug is trying to point out here; that the bidder was ill-informed or that he almost managed to sell the shirt. had the bidder gone through with the purchase, this would all be a bigger mess and there'd be one unhappy bidder so why is doug painting a positive light around the fact that he almost sold it to an ill-informed bidder?

would it have bothered the bidder to see a comparison of the stains on the mastro shirt and on jim reed's shirt thereby showing them to be the same shirt? why not give them all of the evidence, not just half, and then see if they're still interested?

"The primary issue for this shirt was the fact that the #2 on the jersey appears to have been altered."

what about the fact that..you know..the shirt is a perfect match for jim reed's ranzino smith shirt? is that an issue? after all, the number change could theoretically be explained using the same logic as the name change: it wouldn't be unusual for a college jersey. on the other hand, how could you possibly explain the identical stains? alterations aren't always detectable. if the alterations on this job wouldn't have been detectable, the stains alone would've proven the case.

anyway, aside from missing the biggest piece to this puzzle, kudos to doug allen for his otherwise superb investigative work and for jumping into action once the daily news and fbi picked up the story. kudos also to lampson for not noticing any alterations on an $11,000 piece when apparently both his employer and his competitor did. as always, nice to see lou taking his job seriously.

time for me to sit back and enjoy the hilarity of watching doug and troy hit each other with giant foam mallets.

rudy.

[Eric]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

I asked Doug Allen the following question

Doug-

You mentioned that the buyer was comfortable buying the Jordan shirt even after they were told (after the auction) that there was a name change. Is there any way I could send a few questions to the buyer?
Eric
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He sent me this answer, and I'm posting it here with his permission


Hey Eric,

Let me relay my conversation with the bidder.

Our bidder knows Ken Crowder, the equipment manager Cynthia Somers referred to in her e-mail correspondence. When the bidder heard about the name change he still wanted to show it to Ken as the bidder's recollection was that the JV team did have warm ups and in his own collection he has late 70's early 80's jerseys that were originally varsity shirts that were later changed to generic "Tarheels" for JV use. It was on this basis he thought a vintage name change was possible. Obvioulsy this did not go far once we confirmed other problems with the shirt.

Regards,
Doug

[Moustache Gang]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

Rudi,

If you get a chance can you send me an email. I would like to talk to you on a couple of issues.

Thanks always for your commentary as it is always very insightful.

Mark
www.weimerskirch95@aol.com

[warheel]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

Not to hijack the thread, but seeing the "SMITH 33" jersey brought back some memories. I went to Carolina and Ranzino Smith used to live above me his senior year. I worked with the football team and we hung out some, even took a class together.

The class was "Classics" and we were supposed to study Greek and Roman stuff. Z and I went to class every day, but didn't bother to do the reading. Test day comes and 90% of the test is from the reading. We both made single digits on the test, and ended up dropping the class.

Sorry for the diversion...

[Eric]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

I emailed with Doug Allen today who said I can submit some questions to the buyer of the doctored Michael Jordan jersey.

I will be sending them to Doug tonight and will post the responses when I get them.

Eric

[Eric]

Re: Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt

Here is the email I sent to Doug Allen. He has said he would pass some questions along to the buyer of the Michael Jordan shooting shirt. Thanks to Doug for his help here. I will post the responses when I get them.
Eric

Doug-

Thanks for agreeing to pass the following questions along to the buyer of the Jordan shooting shirt.


To the buyer-
Thank you for taking the time to address this situation. Your responses to these questions will help hobbyists learn from this situation. The questions are below. If you would like to contact me directly about any of this, you can email me at ecky3@aol.com
Thanks
Eric Stangel
administrator, game used forum

1) Before the Mastro auction, what was your experience with collecting Jordan items or North Carolina items? Do you have an extensive collection?

2) Had you seen the Jordan shirt in person at the National before bidding, or did you base your knowledge on seeing the photos in the catalog and reading the auction description?

3) Did you bid in person or on the phone?

4) What kind of research had you done before placing the winning bid on the shooting shirt?

5) At what point did you learn the shirt had issues (name change, mears failure to authenticate letter)

6) When you found out there were questions about the shooting shirt (stains that match a Ranzino shooting shirt and evidence of a name change) what was your response?

7) Did it concern you at all that the shirt went up for auction without a mears letter?

8) Knowing what you know now, what do you think about the fact that mears deemed it unable to authenticate and Lou Lampson wrote a letter on it without even noting a name change?

9) How do you feel about the whole process? What if anything would you change?

10) Doug Allen said you do not have to pay for the Jordan shirt and it has been sent to MEARS for more research. Once MEARS does the extensive work on it, will you have the option to buy the shirt back? If so, what do you plan to do with it?

11) Doug said "...it is interesting to note that the high bidder on the item would actually have still purchased it with MEARS "unable to authenticate" letter as he indicated it would not be unusual for a college jersey to have a name change. This didn't bother the bidder."
Can you elaborate on this?

Thanks for taking the time here. It's going to help a lot of people.