Mears/Lou Lampson/Grey Flannel...Who do you believe?

[PudgePollyMillerFan]

Being new to the baseball game worn jersey hobby, I am interested in several different teams/players game worn jerseys both present and past. I currently only have game worn Detroit Tigers jerseys in my collection because I feel very safe purchasing them directly from the Tigers team....however.....there are several jerseys that are on EBAY and on the forums that I am VERY interested in....but who do I trust when it comes to LOA's and authentication? Unfortunately most (or a lot) of baseball jerseys don't show much wear on them...so it is hard to spot a wear factor......I have seen a large majority of so called "game worn" jerseys that come with a MEARS, LOU LAMPSON or GREY FLANNEL LOA........who is legit and who isn't? I would hate to get stuck with a fake or non game used jersey and I am itching to pick something up but just don't know who or what to believe.....HELP ME!! Any inside info would be a great help.....for instance...I am looking at a Biggio Astros, Beckett Marlins, and Smoltz Braves on Ebay right now......man is this frustrating!! Thanks again for your time and assistance!

[dcrules01]

If it is the 88 Astros Biggio it is discussed in the auction section on the board.Me personally I would buy nothing with a Lampson LOA from all the things I have heard.I think Grey Flannel and Mastro are legit but my advice as many on the board do your homework and ask advice because nobody is perfect.This board is knowledge at it's best so you have come to the right place.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Collect common players.

[sammy]

The lessor of all evils is MEARS.

[kingjammy24]

pudgepolly,

you've hit at what many believe is one of the main problems of this entire industry: collectors looking for someone else to give them all of the answers; for someone else to do the work for them. for the most part, this train of thinking amongst collectors is what's responsible for the current mess with garbage LOAs and authentications. the only reason lampson exists is because people want to believe they can buy peace of mind instead of earning it themselves.

"who do I trust when it comes to LOA's and authentication?"

noone except yourself. why place trust in others when you can place it in yourself? there's nobody that's going to look out for your best interests as well as you.

"who is legit and who isn't?"

for the purposes of collecting, it's irrelevant. who cares who's legit and who isn't? toss the LOAs and authentications in the garbage. a jersey will stand or fall on it's own merits.
when examining a jersey, you can spend weeks. you can become a niche expert in one team or player. do you think anyone else is going to spend weeks authenticating a biggio for you? they'll spend no more than 45 min because any more than that and it's no longer a profitable venture. if they spent 4 days authenticating a biggio, they'd lose money and they're not in business to lose money.

"I would hate to get stuck with a fake or non game used jersey and I am itching to pick something up but just don't know who or what to believe.....HELP ME!!"

you don't seem to know much about baseball gamers so i'm confused about why you're in the market for them. it sounds like a sure recipe for disappointment. unfortunately, this marketplace is filled with people buying things they don't understand. they've got more money than sense. big surprise when so many of them later learn their trust was misplaced. it reminds me of people who sign up for mortgages they don't understand, place their trust in some loan officer, and then are shocked when their rate jumps.

if you'd hate to get stuck with a bad jersey, then do your homework. educate yourself. all of the resources you need are readily available. leaving your buying decisions in the hands of others is a losing proposition. if you feel you don't know enough yet, then don't bid. what's the rush? spend your time learning about jerseys rather than itching to buy. eventually you'll learn enough to authenticate it yourself. this entire forum was set up to help collectors educate themselves and yet i regularly see people come and try to use it as some sort of free authentication service. they're clearly not interested in learning anything or doing any work themselves. they couldn't even be bothered to check out any photos. they want to come here, have others do all the work for them, and just receive some conclusive answer about whether it's good and how much they should pay. i don't even know why they're buying in the first place because they've obviously got no interest whatsoever in the hobby.

rudy.

[PudgePollyMillerFan]

Hmmm...where to begin. Rudy...I appreciate your opinion...that is why I asked for some.......however.....I am not a rookie when it comes to collecting game worn jerseys...I have had well over 300 game worn hockey jerseys in my collection since I started collecting in 1989. This is my first try at collecting baseball gamers. Unfortunately, hockey seems to be much better organized for collectors and easier to authenticate than baseball is. There are a couple of factors that play into that. In hockey you have the majority of the teams that place team stamps into the hems. Most of the teams are or have been utilizing Meigray directly so you know the jersey is legit. The main factor that is the big difference is wear. In hockey it is very easy to photomatch jerseys to images via newspapers, getty images, hockey cards etc. As I have began to notice in baseball.....you just don't have much wear at all. It is very difficult to pick up anything on photo's that can photomatch the jersey for you. There are some exceptions, but for the most part from what I have seen on the racks at the ball games and from what I have seen on Ebay and here on this forum.....not much wear/marks at all. I was merely trying to find out what other collectors have experienced when it comes to authenticators looking at jerseys and/or producing LOA's for them. Trust me....I don't put much stock in LOA's either...I have seen many jerseys that I questioned in hockey that had LOA's and just did not seem right for one reason or another. I by no means want anyone to do my homework for me....that to me is the fun part...I have hundreds of pictures, video footage and cards etc that photomatch probably 90% of my current hockey collection and small Tigers collection that I go through at least once a week to relish in the fact that I have located such photomatch material.....I was just trying to gather intel to be able to help me elimate quickly any jerseys that I may show interest in....because it does appear that I will have to work extra hard to locate photomatches for any baseball jerseys that I may purchase in the future. As I have already learned very quickly on both the Hockey and now baseball front....I can eliminate Lou Lampson from any equation. Thanks again for your time and assistance.

[ahuff]

...hockey seems to be much better organized for collectors and easier to authenticate than baseball is. There are a couple of factors that play into that. In hockey you have the majority of the teams that place team stamps into the hems. ...In hockey it is very easy to photomatch jerseys to images via newspapers, getty images, hockey cards etc. As I have began to notice in baseball.....you just don't have much wear at all. It is very difficult to pick up anything on photo's that can photomatch the jersey for you. There are some exceptions, but for the most part from what I have seen on the racks at the ball games and from what I have seen on Ebay and here on this forum.....not much wear/marks at all...because it does appear that I will have to work extra hard to locate photomatches for any baseball jerseys that I may purchase in the future. As I have already learned very quickly on both the Hockey and now baseball front....I can eliminate Lou Lampson from any equation. Thanks again for your time and assistance.

I agree with most of your statements, as I too have tried to do both hockey and baseball. Hockey jerseys are so fun to collect, because of all the markings. Like you said, they are easier to photomatch, and Meigrey helps with authenticity issues.

However, some things I have discovered about hockey gamers. Teams realize that people want them. I have been told numerous times, by the team, that they can't sell me the game worn jersey. However, they are more than willing to make up a jersey exactly like the players that I was looking for. That includes fight strap, patches, etc. That is concerning to me, and the reason I have bailed on most game used hockey jerseys. You are correct, that the wear is the nice part about hockey gamers, but many are now being worn very few times. Therefore, wear is also getting more difficult to photomatch on hockey gamers as well.

I personally don't trust Lampson, but that is just from experiences that I have had early in my baseball collecting years. (Purchased a batting practice shirt that wound up being a super small cotton t-shirt - it could have fit my 6 yr old and not a grown man) (Lampson rejected an item I sent to an auction house because he couldn't verify it. Too bad it came with a letter from the agent with contact info.) Personally, I will throw out any auction catalogue that uses only Lampson. Perhaps that is too extreme, but I believe if I choose to not purchase from them I am making my voice be heard. Our dollars are our only way of speaking our mind, and hopefully others are doing the same. I have seen some going back to using a combination of Mears and Lampson. I will at least browse those. I suppose I would consider bidding on a holy grail item, but only if I thorougly researched it first.

Grey Flannel is a bit trickier. I've seen them authenticate some baseball. Some of the older jerseys were right on. However, they had a Peavy jersey a year or two ago that I couldn't get a good answer on. They said it was game worn, and when I asked, their only support was that it came from a good source. However, their bread and butter is NBA jerseys. Those are an entirely different ball game. Wear is non-existent on newer jerseys. Some of the 1980's jerseys you can find them with some fading or stains. In my opinion, it would be very difficult to say they were incorrect, when all the tagging is there. But how do you verify wear unless someone takes it off the players back.

Meigrey, I like their program. Though, their customer service and promptness to questions could be improved. I'm not sure how they are authenticating jersey wear, at this point. I've heard two different stories from them at two different times. But any of the hockey jerseys I've gotten from them have been great.

Bottom Line: You just have to do research. There are many great companies out there, but even they make mistakes (as we all do). Compare fonts, patches, wear. Great places I have found to compare are inside seams of jerseys (often players will wear a different colored t-shirt which leaves behind piling that will stand out). Also, Majestic sleeve tags will also reveal something about the amount of wear. There is a white piece that will show more wear or fading the more often it is worn or washed. Pinstripe jerseys are nice, because you can match up patch placement and where pinstripes intersect (allows for photomatching).

I don't know if that was much help, but I just thought I'd throw out my 2 cents.

[cohibasmoker]

Personally, I just collect common players. But if you have to step-up, MEARS is a LOA I would rely on.

If there is a problem with an item MEARS authenticated, if you can point out the error, they will buy the item back. Try that with Lampson, MastroNet or Grey Flannel.

Jim

[ahuff]

Personally, I just collect common players. But if you have to step-up, MEARS is a LOA I would rely on.

If there is a problem with an item MEARS authenticated, if you can point out the error, they will buy the item back. Try that with Lampson, MastroNet or Grey Flannel.

Jim

Great point, and one that I hadn't thought of.

[yankees159]

This post from Cohiba Smoker troubles me.


"If there is a problem with an item MEARS authenticated, if you can point out the error, they will buy the item back. Try that with Lampson, MastroNet or Grey Flannel."

I think you need to be careful with this assumtion. For I have seen instances were it seemed very obvious that MEARS made a mistake yet they refused to purchase back their error. In fact, you can find examples of such instances on this website. It's a bad assumption that athenticators will by back their errors. Especially when the error is in the tens of thousands of dollars.

Todd