Baseball Cheaters (Past & Present)

[reed1216]

I think there is a distinction between cheating and acting in a manner that compromises the integrity of the sport. I think there is a difference between Phil Niekro's antics or Sammy Sosa corking a bat compared to the institutional racism that was baseball's culture until 1947 or the rampant use of illegal performance enhancing drugs during the 1980s onward.

Niekro and Sosa (as far as corking bats in concerned) broke the rules and were punished and then reinstated with little to no long term backlash. When I was a kid, it was fun to try to catch Niekro doctoring the ball, while watching games on tv. My dad used to tell me off the spitball pitchers from his day and before. Niekro seemed to represent a throwback to those times and was considered a fan favorite. When Joe Niekro was caught with an emory board in his glove, it was hysterical. Yes, these acts were cheating, but to say they were as serious to the culture and long term standing of baseball as institutional racism and the rampant use of illegal performance enhancing drugs is absurd.

I do agree that what a player does on the field should matter far more than what he does off it, this steroid thing is pretty scary to me. There is nobody who is currently playing in the bigs that isn't a suspect now. Given that there were over 100 players on this list of dirty tests from 2003 is a clear communication to our children that the big leaguers do it, so why shouldn't kids?

I don't dislike ARod. In fact, I used to own one of his Rangers jerseys. I was lucky enough to sell it before this all hit the fan, but I didn't get so lucky on a Clemens shirt that I paid big bucks for, just prior to the release of the Mitchell Report. Baseball now struggles with being a culture of overpaid, juiced up primadonnas and that's too bad. However, even that isn't as bad as keeping african americans out of the sport entirely for over 50 years.

As far as I'm concerned, baseball is still a great game with great players. ARod is among them. However, to lump him in with a guy like Niekro doesn't work for me. Apples and oranges.

[suicide_squeeze]

I heard somebody on the radio this morning talking about Babe Ruth...how his famous fondness for beer might have caused him to be "more relaxed at the plate", giving him an unfair hitting advantage over the guys who chose to play sober.

Seriously, though, I think it's possible to take the "cheating" things to ridiculous extremes...for example, a fielder who blocks the umpire's view as he traps the ball, and then raises his glove as though he has caught it...he's essentially lying, isn't he? Isn't that cheating, too?

Some folks say (and they may be right) that the difference between all the sandpaper and petroleum jelly, etc, that pitchers have been known to use, and something like steroids, is that with the latter, you're actually altering your body chemistry and, eventually, physiological makeup - becoming something other and stronger than what you otherwise would have been. On the other hand, don't vitamins and dietary supplements do more or less the same thing?

Reading back over this post, I'm surprised that I sound as (almost) sympathetic to the steroid-users as I do, because I don't see my attitude as being that way, at all. I suspect that my distaste for their use, and their negative effect on Baseball's image and on the integrity of its records, may be more visceral than intellectual.

godwulf,

A lot of good points, but remember one thing.

You are comparing, as you mentioned yourself, "incidentals" that have all been accepted as part of baseball which is categorized as "cheating". And yes, there are different levels.

But STERIODS are a whole, different, enormously devastaing EFFECT on the outcome of the game played......it isn't even fair to talk about it in the same breath as the others.

No, vitamins and dietary suppliments are NOT the same types of things, and they do NOT do the same thing for one's body. Trying to equate steroids to the same level of cheating to the other "givens" in baseball cheating over the years is just simply wrong.

That's would be like going to watch a greyhound race at a track, only to find out they dogs will be replaced with Indy cars.

[WadeInBmore]

I know someone already said Whitey Ford, just wanted to provide the link to his game used glove that sold in auction. The word "cheat" is written on it and a "tack" was installed onto it LOL.

http://hugginsandscott.com/pl/11207_ford_glove.jpg

[godwulf]

...steroids and other PED's turn an average player with mediocre ability into a lightning quick, super strong cartoon character superhero with reflexes and fire-power to leap small buildings in a single bound.

Players that have NOTHING more than warning track power are now popping the same balls hit on steroids 1o rows deep into the seats. Their batting average, RBI, power numbers......ALL go up SUBSTANTIALLY, as they ruin the record books.

I assumed that this post was written tongue-in-cheek...but your subsequent post makes me wonder how much of this you actually believe.

[suicide_squeeze]

I think there is a distinction between cheating and acting in a manner that compromises the integrity of the sport. I think there is a difference between Phil Niekro's antics or Sammy Sosa corking a bat compared to the institutional racism that was baseball's culture until 1947 or the rampant use of illegal performance enhancing drugs during the 1980s onward.

Niekro and Sosa (as far as corking bats in concerned) broke the rules and were punished and then reinstated with little to no long term backlash. When I was a kid, it was fun to try to catch Niekro doctoring the ball, while watching games on tv. My dad used to tell me off the spitball pitchers from his day and before. Niekro seemed to represent a throwback to those times and was considered a fan favorite. When Joe Niekro was caught with an emory board in his glove, it was hysterical. Yes, these acts were cheating, but to say they were as serious to the culture and long term standing of baseball as institutional racism and the rampant use of illegal performance enhancing drugs is absurd.

I do agree that what a player does on the field should matter far more than what he does off it, this steroid thing is pretty scary to me. There is nobody who is currently playing in the bigs that isn't a suspect now. Given that there were over 100 players on this list of dirty tests from 2003 is a clear communication to our children that the big leaguers do it, so why shouldn't kids?

I don't dislike ARod. In fact, I used to own one of his Rangers jerseys. I was lucky enough to sell it before this all hit the fan, but I didn't get so lucky on a Clemens shirt that I paid big bucks for, just prior to the release of the Mitchell Report. Baseball now struggles with being a culture of overpaid, juiced up primadonnas and that's too bad. However, even that isn't as bad as keeping african americans out of the sport entirely for over 50 years.

As far as I'm concerned, baseball is still a great game with great players. ARod is among them. However, to lump him in with a guy like Niekro doesn't work for me. Apples and oranges.

Thank GOD......I was starting to wonder if this was all just a bad dream.

THANK YOU reed1216 stepping up to state the obvious.

[Mr.3000]

Great thing about opinions, we're all entitled.


I stand by my opinion that cheating is cheating...no matter how you slice it. I don't see "levels" of cheating. I see it as one big ball of ...cheating. It ruins the integrity of the game all the same.

Whitey's vaseline surely affected his numbers. Niekro's emery board surely affected his, Sammy's corked bat surely affected his (not to mention his possible steroid use).....just as A-rods (and others) steroid use affected theirs.

To try and seperate cheating into many or multiple "levels"...is to merely look to nitpick and pit todays cheaters against yesterdays cheaters. Sorry, I don't and won't play that game.

Again....cheating is cheating. It's all one and the same.

The game has had it's dark moments and has survived. It will survive this. Ruth was an alcoholic womanizer, Cobb was an abusive racist, there was the 1919 Blacksox scandal, the strike of '94....and so many more before, inbetween and after. I am sure this won't be the last dark moment in our sport.


It's time for a new commissioner, a stronger drug policy that is actually enforced and stiffer penalties for those that break baseball rules....no matter the rule, no matter the player.

[reed1216]

I agree that cheating is cheating. I also believe a felony is a felony. However, 1st degree murder is a more severe felony than possession of drug paraphernalia. Likewise, abusing illegal performance enhancing drugs is a more severe form of cheating than corking a bat.

If you neglect to accept this principle, prisons would be filled with inmates serving life sentences for possession of drug paraphernalia.

Just my two cents, although I respect all of the opinions expressed here.

http://community.webshots.com/user/Reed97

[Mr.3000]

I agree that cheating is cheating. I also believe a felony is a felony. However, 1st degree murder is a more severe felony than possession of drug paraphernalia. Likewise, abusing illegal performance enhancing drugs is a more severe form of cheating than corking a bat.

If you neglect to accept this principle, prisons would be filled with inmates serving life sentences for possession of drug paraphernalia.

Just my two cents, although I respect all of the opinions expressed here.

http://community.webshots.com/user/Reed97

LOL I knew it was coming...the old "Murder is not the same as.." argument.


I can argue that "cheating" and "felonies" are apples and oranges and we can dance this dance all night. Mail fraud is different from online fraud and carried different penalties. It's still fraud. Strong armed robbery is more severe than armed robbery which is more severe than B&E and carries a varying penalty. It's still armed robbery.

I am not diving into semantics here.

Cheating is cheating. Baseball has always had and more than likely will always have cheaters....one form or another.

[reed1216]

Cheating is cheating. Baseball has always had and more than likely will always have cheaters....one form or another.

I do agree with that!!

[xpress34]

This issue was brought up on another site - Sports Card Forum (SCF) - a while back and a few other issues were 'thrown on the fire' as far as what you consider cheating - or the various levels and such at which it is done.

Quite a few people brought up the distinction that has already been made here between 'doctoring' a ball / bat and 'doctoring' ones own body.

They are definately 'Apples and Oranges' in how they affect the game and it's records.

One of the things that came up (and I thought it was pretty ludicrous) was that Tiger Woods is a cheat at golf because he 'doctored' his body having Lasik - and then admitted that he had never seen the course or the greens as clearly until after he had the Lasik surgery. Is that cheating?

Base on the 'assumption' of few that called that cheating, it begged me to ask the question - does that mean everyone who has ever had Tommy John surgery or the like is a cheater since they may have also had a previously missed bone spur of whatever removed at the same time giving them more flexability?

Or what about Aaron Cook of the Rockies who almost died on the mound due to blood clots caused by a rib pinching a vein. The doctors removed the rib (on his pitching side mind you) and now Cook says his has better flexibility and better mechanics than ever before. Is that cheating? (Note - a few pitchers have actually discussed having that same rib bone removed from their pitching side after Cook in oreder to have better mechanics and such!?!?)

I think the answer to the above questions is NO, it's not cheating. It's a viable (or in Cook's case LIFE Necessary) operation to fix something that's BROKEN.

But Steroids aren't being used to fix something that's BROKEN, they are being used to either SUPERCHARGE an existing Star talent or at the least UPGRADE a mediocre talent to Star talent level.

As far as the comparing 'spitballs', 'cutballs', etc to Steroids use, that's just outrageous... for one thing, the 'art of cheating' or deception used to get a spitball or whatever is something that can be exposed IMMEDIATELY on the diamond and dealt with swiftly (expulsion form the game) on the spot. (i.e. Niekro's famous 'fluttering emory board' or A-Rod's <I'm really not piling on him here> 'girly swat' at Bronson Arroyo in the ALCS in 2004. They were both immediately DETECTABLE and punishment was swift and instantaneous.

STEROIDS were designed (and used) to give an UNDETECTABLE edge to a player w/ no punishment, but all the rewards.

And now players who get caught (for the most part) are trying to play it off - they weren't 'cheating', they were trying to get an 'edge' on the competition...

That said, I'm waiting to see who Tejada is about to 'out' in his plea deal when he goes to court...

All the best -

Chris