I Tried To Take The High Road On The Namath Thing...

[cohibasmoker]

Has Lou made mistakes in the past? Yes. But, by going nuts on an auction house for a mistake like this is not only bad for Heritage, but it is also bad for the hobby in general and board members who like to sit behind their computer and rant and rave about something like this are nothing but instigators who need to calm down.

Ah yes, as Chris Nerat stated in his blog, (see above) Robert's recent postings are just a few more examples of a board member who like to sit behind their computer and rant and rave. And, once again he is being an instigators who needs to calm down.

Chris Nerat, I'am with you brother - this guy Richard needs to calm down. He's totally out of control. But Chris Nerat, I have to ask you, would the most recent examples posted by Richard be somewhat "Bad for the Hobby in General"?

One final thought, I' don't think I'd be real comfortable if I had that Unitas helmet sitting on my shelf - $47,000.00 plus the hammer fees.

Jim

[RKGIBSON]

I have to laugh at Nerats Blog. The fact is, Heritage did act irresponsibly and Nerat is too. You have a bunch of guys operating a auction business who know very little about the product they are trying to selling guys like me. Instead of just telling the truth, they in fact did not check into the authenticity of the helmet and just relied on the story, they try to spin it to make them look not responsible. The truth works better. You have credibility with the truth. Take responsibility. Don't try to discredit someone who truely knows and points that out with absolute evidence. It is obvious to me that these people do not care about doing business with integrity. I was told once that everything in the world revolves around money and sex. Appears right here, they are making money and the buyer gets, well you know.

Roger

[lund6771]

aeneas01...your contribution to the "rightenous" of this world is what this hobby needs...please do not feel discouraged for one second that these scumbags are trying to put a spin on things...

I'll be the first one to back you up in the alley!!!!!!!!!

[500goals]

Robert, Thanks for sharing your honesty and knowledge. I really appreciate it and have learned a ton from your posts. Thanks raifie

[jhunt28]

Robert,

You have opened my eyes to an entirely new aspect of this hobby (and that's what it is, a hobby). Your ability to differentiate minute details, as well as your catalog of knowledge is quite impressive. The only reason why you have not been employed for your inspections and opinions of game worn helmets by an auction house, is that we wouldn't see ANY of these helmets for sale. You have personally saved me A LOT of money, and have taught me to look for things in helmets that most wouldn't even see. I think I can speak for 99% of this board when I say THANK YOU for all of the time and effort you spend in discrediting 99% of the frauds out there. Your findings are always insightful, well presented, and most importantly respectful. Thanks again for all of your work!!

[RKO18]

Might seem like a stupid question but where on earth do all of these flawed items originate?

Was someone intentionally trying to scam collectors or are these just items that many people thought were real and have passed them down over time?

[aeneas01]

Might seem like a stupid question but where on earth do all of these flawed items originate? Was someone intentionally trying to scam collectors or are these just items that many people thought were real and have passed them down over time?

good questions and imo it's a little of both, some were intentionally faked to rip off collectors and some were honestly, albeit incorrectly, passed along as authentic gamers. the problem with the later is that at some point someone authenticated these things - so even if they were innocently/honestly believed to be gamers at one time due to bad or misunderstood information, they should have been caught during the authentication process.

with that said, i have a pretty good idea where a lot of these vintage helmets came from, authentic helmets that were intentionally "doctored" in order to make them appear to have come from well known players. i think the person(s) responsible a) know football helmets better than most b) have been collecting game used items for decades c) have developed relationships with equipment managers, players, dealers and auction houses d) are well known and respected and e) have enjoyed the ability to bring their bunk items to market for years, with little to no scrutiny, prior to the internet age. i also believe that for years more than a few auction houses have facilitated this mess by shrugging their responsibility to their buyers - this is clear given the amount of bunk items that pass mustard and the impossible time frame authenticators are given to inspect enormous lots.

but i would think this could change rather quickly if, for example, the fbi got involved. it seems that law enforcement could simply approach an auction house and ask how they determined some items to be authentic. a few items that would be interesting starting points would be both unitas helmets sold through hunt, the unitas helmet sold through mastro, a blanda helmet, a dawson helmet and a namath helmet sold through ami. that's 6 helmets. ask the auction houses a) where they came from b) what proof they were given that supported their authenticity c) what process their authenticator(s) used to determine their authenticity and d) how involved were the auction houses in the authentication process. i think these simple steps, limited to a handful of items, would tell an interesting tale...

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