Big Mac staying home in 2007?

[R. C. Walker]

What ever happen to innocent until proven guilty? The only way I see a voter not voting him in is if theres hard core evidence that proves he infact did take steriods.

McGwire was on a performance enhancing drug (or if you prefer, supplement) Androstenedione. It was in his locker for all to see. Including the ones that vote for the HOF: The Baseball Writers of America.

Andro was not banned by baseball at that time, yet I believe voters will not vote for McGwire due to the cheating aspect towards the game.

[cjmedina1]

McGwire was on a performance enhancing drug (or if you prefer, supplement) Androstenedione. It was in his locker for all to see. Including the ones that vote for the HOF: The Baseball Writers of America.

Andro was not banned by baseball at that time, yet I believe voters will not vote for McGwire due to the cheating aspect towards the game.

Andro was not banned by baseball at that time.Well when was it.If Mcgwire taking this after it was banned then yes not a first ballot HOF and not a HOF period.But infact he was taking Andro when it was not banned by BASEBALL or the GOVERMENT.So wheres the fault?He was just going about the rules that was in front of him.I can not say as to why he stop taking Andro.Maybe some one can shed some light on this

[mr.miracle]

If memory serves me correctly, the Andro was discovered in McGwires locker deep into the 1998 season when he and Sosa were pursuing Maris's single season record. Whether or not he wanted it discovered is a matter of some debate but that is another story. After it was discovered, I know there was some negative press directed toward Big Mac. At the time, Andro was perfectly legal in baseball and in the U.S. being sold over the counter at GNC. There was some dispute over its long term health affects and the negative press was directed at McGwire over the fact that this was sending a bad message to young kids and young athletes. Shortly thereafter McGwire announced he would no longer use Andro. It was not banned by baseball or the Federal Government until several years later.

It basically boiled down to a public relations/image issue for him. That to the best of my knowledge is what happened with the Andro.

Bret

[b.heagy]

Only my opinion for what its worth. Guys like Ruth, Aaron, Mays, Williams and the list goes on did not use PERFORMANCE ENHANCING drugs/supplements. Their game was NATURAL skill. Modern players such as Mac put Performance Enhancing drugs into ther body to bring their game to a higher level. In my eyes it doesn't matter how you look at it, they were trying to improve their game. Natural skill was not good enough and they felt the need to enhance their skill. Natural ability stands above all. The players themselves felt the need to somehow bring their game to a level that the TRUE greats had naturally. Banned or not banned at the time does not matter to me. Give guys like Ruth, Aaron, Mays, and Williams PED and how many home runs would Bonds still be chasing ? And lets not set aside the Home runs Williams and Mays would have with lost time to the service (WOW!)

[Nathan]

Andro was available as an OTC supplement until early 1999 and wasn't pulled from the market (and subsequently outlawed) until after that point. Although it does appear to stimulate testosterone production to a very limited extent, the actual effects (positive and negative) are still unknown.

During "the chase", andro was not outlawed by either MLB OR the federal government (unlike synthetic testosterone or other similar compounds). It is now, but to condemn someone in an ex post facto manner seems slightly odd to me.

The other issue being brought up is McGwire appearing before Congress. The simple fact is that he did not belong there with other active players. Questions directed toward him regarding the current state of MLB, the MLBPA, and drug testing had no application to him at all and justified the "I'm retired" answers he was giving. And the questions of "Did you use steroids" while everyone else was being asked "do you use steroids" (past vs present) was nothing more than bringing a certain amount of tabloid exploitation to Congressional hearings.

Did McGwire use compounds stronger than andro during his career? Possibly. However, what possible basis could there be (during hearings being held to determine the course of future policy based on the present) for asking questions regarding his career, which has ended three years prior by that point? If he says yes, what has anyone gained? Certainly the future of MLB policy wouldn't be in any way influenced by it; it looked like baiting for a scoop to me. If he says no, then has there been any gain by anyone there? Will MLB policy have been improved by him answering any of those questions at all? The answer is no.

[BoneRubbedBat]

If we barred every player whose career was enhanced or prolonged by modern medicine, we wouldn't have much of a Hall of Fame from here on out. Is having Lasik surgery to enhance vision considered cheating? It is most certainly a performance-enhancing procedure, more so than using anabolics. Is rotator cuff surgery to prolong a career considered cheating? It would prolong a career more predictably than human growth hormone would. If it is not illegal when they do it, it should not be considered "cheating." Everyone wants to have an edge, especially in this age of multi-million dollar contracts. Where is the line drawn?

People have a hard time differentiating between an illegal substance and something that is obtained illegally. To clarify, testosterone is a legal medication. Every pharmacy carries it. It comes in various forms from topical gel (aka "the clear"), to patches, to oral troches. I write prescriptions for it almost daily for legitimate uses. Ordering it via the internet from Botswana is illegal. Human Growth Hormone is legal and has legitimate uses, but is extremely expensive (around 4K per month). Any player could be on HGH and MLB would never know it since there is no standardized way to assess extrensic HGH usage as of yet. Any player who is returning from an injury plagued season and is doing well could be under suspicion for HGH usage (Frank Thomas, Griffey Jr., etc) since it assists with healing. Illegal substances are those such as crack, meth, etc.

It should take more than speculation to keep guys out of the Hall. We have an entire generation of players that are currently under the microscope. As of right now, every player with over 500 HR's that is not already in the HOF is the subject of that speculation (except Griffey). Palmeiro doesn't count - he was using multiple performance-enhancing drugs including Viagra. Any player in this generation with exceptional numbers is automatically assumed to have cheated. How is this fair? Who's next? A-Rod? Pujols?

I am not that naive to think that it is not occuring though. I do think there are many players out there that are using various substances for non-therapeutic conditions, but I will continue to base my final opinions on fact rather than speculation.


Mac didn't juice, Sosa didn't juice, and OJ didn't do it.

[mr.miracle]

Marcus makes an excellent point. Even though Palmeiro got caught and there are questions surrounding several other big time HOF calibre players, the facts remain that 1. these other players have never been caught doing anything illegal which makes it very difficult to play the assumption game and sanction anyone. 2. We will never, ever know the full scope of just how far reaching the steroids/HGH scandal has gone.

Whatever the reliability of Canseco's claims are, the fact that he is saying that 70-80% of players in the 90's were using steroids or some type of PED leads us to believe that many, many players were on something. As Marcus said, how do you make that determination of what is cheating and what is not and how do you sanction a player because you think he was cheating, but have no definitive proof? How many other players never attained superstar status yet spent much of their careers using some type of PED? Performance enhancing drugs will not make an average player a superstar, they will make a superstar even better. Many average players probably used something which allowed them to stay in the league a few more years. We simply will never know the depth and extent to which this issue goes.

Therefore, the question is, do we disregard the past 20 years in MLB and state that everyone could be guilty of cheating so nobody goes into the HOF? That is simply ridiculous, probably as ridiculous as the speculation that this person or that person cheated so based on our suspicions players A, B, and C should not go into the Hall. It all goes back to one issue, MLB dropped the ball 15 plus years ago when there were suspicions that players were on something. Now everyone wants to point fingers and lock people out of the HOF. We cheered for 15 years as these herculean numbers were put on the boards and now we want to scream cheater at everyone and punish them for attaining levels that were unrealistic to begin with. We turned a blind eye because it was fun to watch. Now we want someone to hang for this. It all seems a bit odd to me. I am in no way trying to justify cheating or using PED's, just some food for thought.

Brett Herman

[cjmedina1]

I guess Mr.Mcgwire needs to talk to the public as to why he was taking Andro.Your right about what if Ruth,Mantle would have taking care of there health instead of living the Bar life(Read this in books).For me I would say Ted Williams could have gave Aaron a heck of a time catching him for all time HR and he is my hero hands down.Not only giving up baseball to fight for your country but in his HOF speech he did mention that the negro ball players deserve to in this HOF to not keep out cause a race.I'm a 31 old young man who wish he could go back in time and watch real baseball when most players played hard,Play through injury and cared about the fans.Sorry I'm getting of topis
Carlie Meidna III
carliemedinaiii@sbcglobal.net

[cjmedina1]

One last thing before I go to bed.What do you all think will happen to Mcgwires Game used value.Will it go up or will it go down.
Also still looking for my unicorn.A real 1998 sign game used bat of Mcgwire
Carlie Medina III
carliemedinaiii@sbcglobal.net

[staindsox]

Do you think McGwire got that big on Andro? Come on now. Just like Bonds. Yeah, a guy who lifts all year round and already takes every legal supplement available is suddenly going to put on 40-50 pounds of muscle in three months??? Andro also won't make your skull grow several sizes larger. Bottom line: Mac juiced...and I wish it weren't true. That doesn't make him a terrible human being, but it also doesn't buy him a spot in the Hall. Well he would have hit ___ anyway. And Tony Oliva would have done ___ if it wasn't for his knees and Conigliaro would have done ___ if he wouldn't have been beaned and Ray Fosse would have ___ if it weren't for that collision and Thurman Munson would have ___ if he hadn't have crashed in that plane..."would have" doesn't get you in Cooperstown.