Quote Originally Posted by STLHAMMER32 View Post
By your argument of Kobe 5 to Lebron's 0. Then Bill Russell's 11 to Kobe's 5 would make Bill Russell better........

I would personally vote for Satch Sanders of the 60's Celtics with 8 Rings or maye Jim Loscutoff or Frank Ramsey of those same Celtics teams with 7 rings each. One of those three is definitely the best player of all time

One point that I think is interesting is that someone brought up how LeBron could not possibly be expected to win as many titles as Kobe to this point as he plays in Cleveland and the Lakers at least over the past 25 - 30 years have essentially been the class of the NBA or at least in the top two or three teams. I am not sure that is accurate in the same sense that the Bulls absolutely stunk when Jordan arrived. They had been somewhat competitive in the 70's but never played for a title. By the late 70's and early 80's they were horrible. Jordan's arrival and subsequently Pippen and the addition of role players changed all that.

LeBron has been in the league 7 years now. By all accounts Dan Gilbert their owner is willing to spend a ton of money to bring in support for LeBron. The argument that LeBron has to do it all due to the players around him seems silly to me. During the regular season when the Cavs are putting up 65 wins, nobody complains about Mo Williams, Boobie Gibson, Big Z, Big V, The Big Aristotle, etc. All of a sudden when they flame out in the playoffs, it is all those guys fault. If anything, they just don't know and understand how to play playoff basketball.

How many Cavs fans don't wish now that the Cavs had pulled the trigger on the Amare Stoudemire trade with Phoenix earlier this season instead of settling for Jamison. True, Amare could probably not have stopped Garnett either however he certainly would not have been missing in action on the offensive end as Jamison was especially against the Celtics.

If the Cavs have failed to surround LeBron with quality, that is somewhat their own dumb fault. If the front office is not shrewd enough to make good trades or bring in really good free agents it really has nothing to do with the city itself. True, the Lakers and Celtics have a rich tradition that Cleveland does not have however MJ proved that Chicago which was once a bottom feeder with zero championship pedigree could become world champions based on a great front office, player draft selection and development and surrounding MJ with the right players to get the job done.

I think LeBron will get his titles however I agree, he needs to get serious on a Kobe level about winning where it is obsessive to him to the point that almost nothing else matters. Those few players the MJ's, Kobe's, Bird's, Magic's etc. that cared for winning and little else are what sets them apart from others. I just wonder if LeBron has that drive. Only time will tell.