Trembley finally fired!!

[geoff]

I am A Orioles Season Ticket Holder.Only 13 Games but its all good I love going to Games even though we are Losing.I say its about Time Trembley was Fired.He is A Nice Guy in all but He had to go.The Orioles need A Change.Maybe Samual is The Answer to Light A Fire in The Players but I do Think He will only be The Manager for The Rest of this Season.We need A High Profile Manager I think.Only Time will Tell what will happen.I will still go to Games And always Love The Orioles no matter what happens.Just my thoughts on this Subject.

Thanks
Geoff

[legaleagle92481]

Several things are problematic here. First of all, The Orioles while not having the #1 draft pick repeatedly over the past twelve years have had one of the top 3 - 10 draft picks each of the past twelve seasons. While baseball is certainly more of a crap shoot than say picking the #3 - 10 picks in either football or basketball, there is simply no reason why the Orioles farm system has been a complete train wreck up until about two years ago. In fact, most of the top prospects who are either now in Baltimore or on their way up were acquired via trade from other teams not even home grown talent. The simple fact is that the Orioles from top to bottom have been a disgrace for the past now thirteen seasons and there is just no excuse for it.

Secondly, everyone keeps saying the Orioles cannot outspend the Yankees and Sox, to a degree that is true but not completely. The insiders in MLB who regularly can forcast revenue agree that the Orioles could complete and still break even if their payroll was in the 125 million annual range right below that of the Red Sox. While the attendance has become pitiful at Camden Yards, that would surely change if a concerted effort was made on behalf of management to turn around the culture of losing and over time the fans sensed that a real effort was being made to win and the results showed on the field. Additionally, Angelos received an insane amount of money from MLB to agree to allow the Nats to relocate to the Washington area. That coupled with the fact that he owns the MASN sports network, forcast are that the Orioles actually have revenue of somewhere around $330 million per year even with a nearly empty stadium and dwindling fan base. Based upon that, there is no viable arguement that they cannot spend money to put talent on the field.

Certainly they cannot just dump boat loads of money into free agents as many free agents it is true will not come to Baltimore because they think they cannot win. However, a concentrated effort to build the minor league system and develop talent along with strategic efforts to bring in key free agents should be and could be made.

Sadly, as another poster mentioned, this will never change as long as Pete Angelos and his 5 feet tall sons run the team. Angelos should stick to law and let the people that know the business run the business.

The other factor is that someone mentioned that the O's don't have the history of the Yankees and Sox. True, they do not go back to the turn of the previous century, however the O's were THE class of baseball in the mid to late 60's through the 70's. They had the best record in the majors over a 15 year period into the early 80's. While revenue and the distribution of it has changed over the years, there is simply no reason that this team cannot compete with the big boys. They have one of the most loyal and rabid fan bases in all of sports that just want the team to return to their past glory. I witnessed this personally on the home opening day when a record crowd of 49000 showed up filled with hope of a team that was finally turning the corner. That turned quickly to disgust when the wheels fell of the cart.

Only Angelos selling this team will ever make a difference and I don't believe in my lifetime, I will ever see this team win again.

The Yankees spend about $200 million so the payroll gap at your suggested spending level would still be the equivalent of the entire payroll of a mid market team. If the Yankees really want a player no team can outbid them unless the owner is willing to dip into his personal fortune, which very, very, very few owners would ever do. Could they spend more? Of course but would it really make a difference? Maybe if they are lucky they finish third in the division. Baltimore is a great city but also lacks the media opportunities to do ads, etc. and the nightlife that New York has to entice players with.

What I meant by tradition is the Yanks and Sox are national teams meaning they have large fan bases across the country, while the Orioles and the vast majority of teams in all sports have localized fan bases. The time period you cite was 30-45 years ago and the 18-35 year olds who make up a large % of sports fans were either not born or were too young to really remember that era. Plus the Reds and Pirates also played very well during that period with multiple titles and it has not helped them today at all.

Yes Angelos is a horrible owner but then so are many owners I am a Mets fan and our owner would give Angelos a run for his money in lack of baseball smarts.

I think the bigger issue is the Jays and Orioles both will not be able to compete in the near future because of the three power house teams in their division. If they played in the AL or NL West they would fair much, much better. The best hope for their fans is defintely realignment.

[TheGreat#8]

The Yankees spend about $200 million so the payroll gap at your suggested spending level would still be the equivalent of the entire payroll of a mid market team. If the Yankees really want a player no team can outbid them unless the owner is willing to dip into his personal fortune, which very, very, very few owners would ever do. Could they spend more? Of course but would it really make a difference? Maybe if they are lucky they finish third in the division. Baltimore is a great city but also lacks the media opportunities to do ads, etc. and the nightlife that New York has to entice players with.

What I meant by tradition is the Yanks and Sox are national teams meaning they have large fan bases across the country, while the Orioles and the vast majority of teams in all sports have localized fan bases. The time period you cite was 30-45 years ago and the 18-35 year olds who make up a large % of sports fans were either not born or were too young to really remember that era. Plus the Reds and Pirates also played very well during that period with multiple titles and it has not helped them today at all.

Yes Angelos is a horrible owner but then so are many owners I am a Mets fan and our owner would give Angelos a run for his money in lack of baseball smarts.

I think the bigger issue is the Jays and Orioles both will not be able to compete in the near future because of the three power house teams in their division. If they played in the AL or NL West they would fair much, much better. The best hope for their fans is defintely realignment.

Well the problem is that argument does not really hold water either. While the Red Sox have a 2010 payroll of 168 million that is the highest it has ever been. They have regularly been in the 135 - 145 range only 10 - 20 million above what the Orioles could easily sit at and if you are making good business decisons at the minor league level and through free agency then Baltimore could easily compete for #2 in the division on a regular basis. Obviously this can be done simply based on the fact that Tampa did it two years ago and is doing it again this year. Free spending alone is not the answer and I am not saying it is but Baltimore has just been bad at every level from the minor league system to the majors for 13 years and it appears to not be getting better any time soon.

It is not about outspending everyone else, but Baltimore can spend with Boston or close to it but chooses not to do so. Don't underestimate the amount of money that Angelos actually makes off of this club. If the fans knew the real amount they would probably be sick especially based on the actual product put back on the field.

Realingment is probably not happening anytime soon. In fact, if Angelos was smart, he would have played that card several years ago and told MLB that the Nats could come to Washington if the O's were relocated to the NL East. I have heard that argument that this would have been done but good old Pete did not make the formal request.

Bottom line is they will have to compete where they are in the same division with what they have to compete with. People who are arguing that they cannot do so are simply misinformed and using the circumstances around the team as a poor excuse.