Pete Rose Game Worn 4000 Hit Uniform

[sox83cubs84]

After reading the article I don't think you can trust anything Halper had. I think that he was a guy who did not really care if things were real. He just wanted to awe people with them like the Jackson jersey and nobody ever bothered to look into stuff until now many years later because people viewed him as the icon of the hobby. An SI article once said that he had a jersey worn by every MLB HOFer at the time except Eppa Rixey. At any price when has anyone seen a jersey of many of those players particularly the pre War ones available? Most of them got reused by others and eventually were thrown away. The jersey here might be A real Rose jersey just not THE 4000 hit Rose jersey. The Pete letter is not exactely a selling point as we all know he has truth issues and has done alot to make a buck over the years. If Barry had said I will pay you x amount to sign this letter saying this is your 4,000 hit jersey I can't see Pete objecting and being like Barry I just can't because it would be dishonest.If the letter said this jersey is my first born child for the right price he would sign it.

I concur. In my former capacity, I examined several low-end Halper Collection flannels, and found several to have issues. There was a jersey purported to be a Tigers road of Jim Bunning and had tag doctoring and turned out to be a 1968 road of Dennis Ribant. Two White Sox home pinstriped jerseys were signed by, and supposedly used by, Early Wynn and Smoky Burgess. Both were minor league jerseys, and the Wynn was of a style he never wore while with the White Sox.

I tend to also agree with your assessment about Halper's collection, but for a different reason...Barry was such a hobby celebrity at the time that my guess is no one wanted to be on his bad side, so, if they saw something wrong, they just shut up about it. I won't go so far as to suggest Barry knew or didn't care if his stuff was real, but think about it...if you were a third=party authenticator asked to view Halper's items while he still was alive, wouldn't you feel just a wee bit intimidated telling a hobby legend that at least a few of his items were crap?

Dave Miedema

[RJB44]

I would be interested in reading the Harper article that was referenced about his collection. Available on-line?

[Mark17]

I won't go so far as to suggest Barry knew or didn't care if his stuff was real, but think about it...if you were a third=party authenticator asked to view Halper's items while he still was alive, wouldn't you feel just a wee bit intimidated telling a hobby legend that at least a few of his items were crap?

Dave Miedema

If I was a third-party authenticator (with ethics) I'd call it like I saw it. My assumption would've been that Barry would be glad to know that one of his sources was selling him bogus stuff.

However, when Barry's story of how he obtained some of those items involved a lie; when he said he got stuff from a family for example, when the family didn't have the item to begin with, then of course Barry wouldn't want that exposed.

I wonder if we'll ever find out who was doctoring that stuff, or who was selling it to him. And I wonder if Barry knew someday this would all come to light... and I wonder what he thought about that, and what his ultimate hobby legacy would be. I didn't know the guy, would he have thought it was a big joke?

[sox83cubs84]

If I was a third-party authenticator (with ethics) I'd call it like I saw it. My assumption would've been that Barry would be glad to know that one of his sources was selling him bogus stuff.

However, when Barry's story of how he obtained some of those items involved a lie; when he said he got stuff from a family for example, when the family didn't have the item to begin with, then of course Barry wouldn't want that exposed.

I wonder if we'll ever find out who was doctoring that stuff, or who was selling it to him. And I wonder if Barry knew someday this would all come to light... and I wonder what he thought about that, and what his ultimate hobby legacy would be. I didn't know the guy, would he have thought it was a big joke?

I'd like to think that I'd do the same, but saying you would is easier than actually doing it. Given Halper's icon status in the hobby, the only harder thing to do would be to tell a player that there's problems with the item he himself gave you or submitted. It would be pressure, as well as the chance to be smeared by the collector/athlete of icon status, with rank-and-file collectors (not the educated ones on this forum) more likely to think ill of you than of him. Plus, if one is so inclined, he could just take the item to a third-party guy who is less disciplined and ethical who'd be willing to "play along". I already saw that with a mid-1940s Ted Williams that MEARS rejected, but another guy (3 guesses who) gave his blessings to).

Dave Miedema

[legaleagle92481]

Lets be realistic if an authenticator flunked something it would have been tantamount to putting himself out of a job. Ethics are nice but how many people are willing to toss away their job over them? Or if say you owned or were a partner in the company the jobs of your employees as well? Remember the Halper family made many millions off of this stuff. I think the Hall should have Mears and another expert look at the stuff that was donated seperately from each other and see if this is just a few items or most of the lot that is questionable. Obviously Barry is dead so we will never truly know his motives if they were innocent or not but action should be taken to get the bad stuff out of the marketplace and Hall and the Halper family should have to refund the money they made off the bad stuff.

[sox83cubs84]

Lets be realistic if an authenticator flunked something it would have been tantamount to putting himself out of a job. Ethics are nice but how many people are willing to toss away their job over them? Or if say you owned or were a partner in the company the jobs of your employees as well? Remember the Halper family made many millions off of this stuff. I think the Hall should have Mears and another expert look at the stuff that was donated seperately from each other and see if this is just a few items or most of the lot that is questionable. Obviously Barry is dead so we will never truly know his motives if they were innocent or not but action should be taken to get the bad stuff out of the marketplace and Hall and the Halper family should have to refund the money they made off the bad stuff.

True, but there are dealers/authenticators with integrity. In my several years with MEARS, I was never once pushed to give a wink and a nod to a bad piece. Same with Huggins & Scott....if I find something they've submitted that is not up to snuff, the only thing they ask me to do is give them reasons why I find fault with the piece so they can relay the information to the owner/consigner. I imagine there are a number of auction houses and dealers who would push an authenticator to overlook problem items, but H&S and MEARS both have never even hinted at expecting me to do so.

Dave Miedema