Game Issued that appear Game Used

[allstarsplus]

That Jeter bat doesnt look good to me. I wouldnt touch a modern Jeter or Arod LVS that wasnt double dipped to begin with. By modern I mean a 2001 to the present labeling. And the pine tar looks funky.

The use around the branding looks suspect too. BottomOfThe9th certainly lives in a glass house. That was just a recent auction.

Then this Negative on fake balls:


HAD TO FILE PAYPAL CLAIM. COULD NOT VERIFY BALL W/TRISTAR.RETURNED FOR REFUND.clublevelinc6ra3 ( 8460)
Nov-23-08 13:00

• Reply by bottomofthe9thonline (Nov-23-08 13:21):
  
  I GIVE HIM A FULL REFUND +S/H AND I GET NEG FEEDBACK? THIS GUY IS A SCAM & LIAR!
  • Follow-up by clublevelinc6ra3 (Nov-23-08 14:06):
    
    PAYPAL ISSUED REFUND.HE SENT VULGAR EMAIL.WE HAVE IT ON FILE.NO CERT FOR 1 BALL!

-- (#330283464220d

[bottomofthe9thonline]

Unbelievable! I get called out as personally attacking you after raising serious questions about the way you have an item listed, doing it all in a professional and informative manner- which apparently set you on a mission to try and blemish my character as you have stooped to an amazing new low by posting the ONE negative comment I have received in 10+ years of selling on eBay when you know nothing about the history of that transaction.

[bigtime59]

At this point, with so many "issues" surrounding the jersey, I'd end the auction early "due to errors in the listing", contact the bidders to explain why, and look for photo matches before re-listing. (Because you have sooooooo much time on your hands! ).
One question: do the holograms match up between the jersey and the letter?

Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

[allstarsplus]

Unbelievable! I get called out as personally attacking you after raising serious questions about the way you have an item listed, doing it all in a professional and informative manner- which apparently set you on a mission to try and blemish my character as you have stooped to an amazing new low by posting the ONE negative comment I have received in 10+ years of selling on eBay when you know nothing about the history of that transaction.

It's not unbelievable. You come on to this Forum and go on the attack so you opened yourself up to scrutiny.

I have 9+ years on eBay and never any negatives and in my business never one return and never one unhappy person on this Forum.

From the many emails I have received, I appreciate the support as the description is crystal clear. The LOA was photo'd and says "Game Issued" but also has a major inconsistency as it says "Arm Band". The jersey stinks. It obviously isn't the same jersey that the LOA describes.

In the end, someone is going to get a great Mariano Rivera jersey. Maybe it was only used while he sat in the bullpen. Maybe someone can photomatch it to a game that Mariano pitched in. It is light use nonetheless, just like so many Steiner Yankee jerseys I have sold before as game used because the LOA says game used and were purchased as game used. The point I made about the Ivan Rodriguez I just got from them and this jersey is honest mistakes happen.

Now for you BottomOfThe9thOnline, how can you sell that Jeter bat as game used? In my opinion, that bat is very questionable.

[allstarsplus]

At this point, with so many "issues" surrounding the jersey, I'd end the auction early "due to errors in the listing", contact the bidders to explain why, and look for photo matches before re-listing. (Because you have sooooooo much time on your hands! ).
One question: do the holograms match up between the jersey and the letter?

Mark
bigtime39@aol.com

Yes, same holograms. I added that to the jersey description.

[MarinersFan34]

And by the way, members......if YOU all think Steiner's COA's are God's word......then I think you all need to spend a bit more time reading these posts. They make numerous mistakes.

Hopefully this is one in your favor, Andrew.

Gotta agree here, so far this whole thing is all based on a COA, a 3 cent sheet of paper with text on it. Forget what the item looks like or smells like in this case, that paper is the end all be all. Dang.. LL was onto something, all his stuff is golden, what were we all thinking to question any of it. Nobody ever makes mistakes, COA's are THE final word.

I have an item from Steiner that says GI, but has some marks/stains on it. Doesn't smell that I can tell from opening the bag but it's some pants so I'm not jamming my nose into some pants issued or otherwise. I bought them as issued and if I ever sold them, I'd list them as issued but have the extremely small possibility of being worn once as they are not pristine.

I guess it all depends on people's persepectives and their full discloure of items they sell. The COA on any item I buy is one small piece of the equation but by no means is the asolute single piece of provenance that determines what the item is.

[joelsabi]

Andrew,
This will be my last post in this thread since I see you changed the title of your listing which is all I wanted to see to begin with.

However why don't you just end the auction, and try your best to photomatch this jersey using every resource out there? You might have a potential gem in your hand. If this indeed was an error on Steiner's part why should anyone besides you benefit from their error?

Goh

andrew,

first i think your description of the item has as much disclosure as possible and i commend you for initiating this post prior to posting the item on ebay.

maybe ending the auction would be nice until you find a photomatch. who ever is in possession of the item holds the risk until a photomatch can be found. whoever has the risk will reap the rewards when the photomatch is found.

i would hold off on using the fabrege while others here hunt down photo for you but then again how does the bo affect the photomatch?


i am one of those people that wants a pristine jersey for a game issued item so i hope this is found to be game used.

good luck.

joel

[DonFan23]

Unfortunately I don't have enough time now to write the lengthy post that this thread deserves, but here are a few quick points to note:

1 - To Joel's point, Steiner does not opperate like MeiGray, with locker room access, tagging what comes off a player's back as it happens. They receive/pcik up shipments from the Yanks and do their best from there.

2 - As Brad noted, Steiner will not re-cert due to an error on their part, no matter how improper the original was. I unfortunately have personal experience with this one as well. However, shifting their process on this would cause more problems in the long run (for a larger pool of items that could then be brought into question) than it would remedy.

3 - As BOT9 (Andrew's biggiset critic in all this) said himself and as we all preach "...do your homework." I can't tell you how many mislabeled YS LOAs I've seen, including those of items in my own collection. "Minty" items with crisp tags whose LOAs state "game used" and vice versa, are all too common.

• Last week I received a "game issued" pair of pants that have holes in the rear bottom above the elastic hem where the player would hook the pants beneath his rear spikes.
• I have a "circa 2000 game issued home jersey" (player attribution) that couldn't possibly be a 2000 due to the tagging, etc, that shows light use, and that I've photomatched to 2002 regular season and postseason game use by a more-than-inconsequential player.
• The list goes on and on, just speaking of items that have passed through my hands or are still in my collection.
• On ebay right now are at least a half dozen items in my watchlist that the sellers likely used the LOAs to come up with their titles, but can't possibly be as listed just based on a cursory examination solely based on the limited photos posted (with no further info or pics requested from the seller).

Not faulting the sellers on those in the last bullet, as they're listing the items as the LOAs read. However, is it only on the buyers to do their homework? Don't people fault the auction houses with regularity for not doing their homework, but now Andrew is suddenly at fault for doing his?

Knowing enough to come to a conclusion about the authenticity and use characteristics of an item (or lack thereof) isn't meant only for proving that something reported as game worn is not or cannot be. Sometimes it's the other way around. Life is a two-way street, and so is game used collecting.

[allstarsplus]

andrew,

first i think your description of the item has as much disclosure as possible and i commend you for initiating this post prior to posting the item on ebay.

maybe ending the auction would be nice until you find a photomatch. who ever is in possession of the item holds the risk until a photomatch can be found. whoever has the risk will reap the rewards when the photomatch is found.

i would hold off on using the fabrege while others here hunt down photo for you but then again how does the bo affect the photomatch?


i am one of those people that wants a pristine jersey for a game issued item so i hope this is found to be game used.

good luck.

joel

Joel - Great points, but I have 5 bids and already emails from people wanting to outright buy it so at this point so I will let it run its course and if someone comes up with a photomatch then they will get a steal because even if the bids go above $1,000, the winner will only have to pay $1,000 or I may stop it early and award it to the high bid at that point.

There is a home game issued 2008 on eBay for $1,100 so I know someone will be getting a great jersey no matter what. I had purchased 2 Mariano's so I do have another pristine game issued never used 2008 Mariano so I would allow the winner to take that if they want a non-smelly.


http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trk...All-Categories

On a related note, BottomOfThe9th called me this morning and the conversation was much better than the back and forth on here. He is a major Mariano Rivera collector and said his interest in this jersey was to be fair to all potential bidders. I am fine with that as I always want full disclosure. There is nothing to hide here and never was as I took great photos and described it clearly.

In a strange turn, I saw the auction Goh has for last worn pants by Cody Ransom and Kyle's photomatch to say it is NOT the right pants so it is amazing again with items you think are one thing and really are another and they have MLB holo and Steiner COA so maybe he changed pants during the game. Goh, are you going to stop your auction as Kyle Hess has shown those are not the pants for the final out. http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ad.php?t=23654

http://cgi.ebay.com/CODY-RANSOM-GAME...1%7C240%3A1309

[BULBUS]

As Brad noted, Steiner will not re-cert due to an error on their part, no matter how improper the original was. I unfortunately have personal experience with this one as well. However, shifting their process on this would cause more problems in the long run (for a larger pool of items that could then be brought into question) than it would remedy.

RJ,

I have seen Steiner re-cert a jersey. I sold a jersey that was clearly not what the LOA stated and the buyer was able to get a new LOA issued that better described the jersey.

-Chris