Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

[Marichal27]

Marichal27 it's funny all I have asked Mr. Lewis for is proof which he has not provided. Have not ragged on him once. Have gone out of my way to be kind towards him.

Let me take your statement listed below point by point.

"Believe me, a freight train is coming, and if I were you, I'd get far away from the tracks. McAullife did use a blue border at that time, whether it was a high school jersey or an mlb JERSEY. dO YOUR HOMEWORK.In Thai, they would say that you are MOONG! Look at the difference in the newness/oldness of the numbers, etc. vs. the McAullife tag in that '77 Lynn jersey. You sound like a Mikequickness."

1. A freight train is coming and if I were you, I'd get far away from the tracks?

Then I guess alot of advance collectors, auction houses and authenticators are all going to get hit by it.Read the the whole I said if proven wrong I would try and locate every borderless jersey people have purchased and try to help them get a refund.

2. McAullife did use a blue border at that time, whether it was a high school jersey or an mlb JERSEY.

According to Mr. Lewis that is not the case that the way to tell a MLB jersey apart from a High School is the lack of the blue border, just so we are both on the same page.

3. Do my homework?

I have and my home work has located numerous borderless examples from starts to commons that is why the debate rages on. Case in point borderless A's Walls COACHES Jersey, who is going to forge a coach?

4. Look at the difference in the newness/oldness of the numbers, etc?

Borderless or bordered the jerseys are both 1977 so the numbers are the same age so I dont understand your premis.

Futhermore if these shirts were made for beer leagues, softball teams, high schools etc dont you think they would exhibit tremendous use? As unlike a pro jersey that was worn for 1 season most high schools or beer league teams did not get new shirt each season and as such wouldnt you expect these shirts to be in worse conditon then a MLB jersey that was properly cared for?

5. Mikequickness?

Sorry I dont understand the reference

Finally if you were bidding on a Bonds jersey and the price point reached
$ 10,000.00 can you please provide the auction link and what ultimately happend in that situation?

Bosox...I'm saying look at the crispness of your McAullife tag. Compare it to the rest of the jersey. looks like more wear and washings on the jersey than it does on the tagging. On the photos, the tag seems too new compared to the rest of the jersey. As far as that "Bonds', it was from an AMI auction about 4 years ago. Supposedly a 2001 road w/flag; Lon spotted this as a fake and did some talking to them (AMI) and I received my $$ back.

[1986&2004Bosox]

I have a 77 Rice road with blue border tag letters and numbers are pounded tags are crisp so that theory don't hold up. There are game worn jerseys from the 50ties with crisp tags.

[1986&2004Bosox]

For all that are interested MEARS article is online

[kingjammy24]

1) its my personal opinion that in attempting to determine tagging issues, jerseys of stars and superstars shouldn't be used as examples. the reasons are obvious. you're far better off, for the purpose of accurate results, to use jerseys from common players. there are a myriad of reasons, some legit and some not legit, why the jerseys of superstars are sometimes different from the jerseys of common players. if you were trying, for example, to determine the proper tagging for 1990 rawlings jerseys would you seriously include ripkens, bonds, and mcgwires? why when you could instead use leonards, breams, and gallegos and eliminate a whole slew of issues that might easily distort the results?

2) for a long time it's appeared to me that mears would slap an A10 on something if it had an athlete's "game used" notation. of course, mears never made any sort of qualitative distinction between players like arod who slapped "game used" on anything and more discerning and honest players. namath slapped a "game used" on that SB3 helmet and we all saw how worthwhile that notation was. same deal with arod and bonds. from some players, a "game used" notation means nothing.

3) i'd like to see dave's results with HOF'er jerseys removed. out of all of the jerseys mentioned in dave's report, the ONLY one without blue lines that's a common jersey is lee walls. haney, mccatty, drago, aviles, kearny, drumright all had blue lines. the ones without blue lines? yaz, rice, jackson, fingers, ryan, fisk.

for the purpose of finding out the most accurate, plausible answers, i think it behooves everyone to leave out the superstar jerseys.

rudy.

[1986&2004Bosox]

rudy that is crazzy, to eliminate a segment of the jerseys because it was a star player? Who's to say that stars did not get different tagging from commons? There are examples of miss tagged years in all sports, missing patches on jerseys. Stars who wore shirt's that were 2 plus years old, recycled jerseys. A jersey should be evaluated on it's own merrits not someone conteniton about tag borders or eliminate the superstatrs. So in your theory how would you evaluate a jersey of a superstar. What would be your base point?

[suicide_squeeze]

rudy that is crazzy, to eliminate a segment of the jerseys because it was a star player? Who's to say that stars did not get different tagging from commons?

So in your theory how would you evaluate a jersey of a superstar. What would be your base point?

I can tell you how I WOULDN'T base who is a superstar and who isn't......

I wouldn't allow a jersey manufacturer make the decision for the baseball world by determining which player gets the blue lines, and which don't.....like you have just suggested as a possibility.

Again, the "defense attorney" arguments just keep coming. Do anything to create "reasonable doubt".

It DOES, however, make sense that there would be a LOT of the "superstar" players jerseys floating aroung because they were being reproduced by the manufacturer for sale to the public from retail stores.

Why? Because the superstars are popular, and they would sell.

Rudy's "theory" holds water.

And that's just my opinion.

[1986&2004Bosox]

So then the shirt direct from Yaz to his agent is a fake lack of blue border? the blue bordered lynn that according to ruddy is wrong sizw again direct from yaz to his agent is a fake becaue lynn wore a 44 and it is a 42.

Jerseys aviable for public sale at retails stores? No one ever remembers this as something that was done.

Mr. Lewis has refused to provide MEARS with the order sheets he claims to have. Why? If he has info that is helpful to the hobby why not give it to the largest evaluator in the hobby to help them make the right call?

If borderless tags became the norm in 1980 then why are their 81 blue borders?

[aeneas01]

i say pound the books - or the net. must be some conclusive photo evidence lurking out there somewhere. no smoking guns here but you get the idea...















for that guu kc fan....



....

[kingjammy24]

rudy that is crazzy, to eliminate a segment of the jerseys because it was a star player? Who's to say that stars did not get different tagging from commons? There are examples of miss tagged years in all sports, missing patches on jerseys. Stars who wore shirt's that were 2 plus years old, recycled jerseys. A jersey should be evaluated on it's own merrits not someone conteniton about tag borders or eliminate the superstatrs. So in your theory how would you evaluate a jersey of a superstar. What would be your base point?

you're only eliminating the segment for the sole purpose of determining what the tagging should be. what's so crazy about that? whatever conclusion lon and mears and others come to, you want to be able to accept and have faith in the results right? you don't want this turning into some florida voting debacle. well the fact is if you base your results heavily on HOF jerseys, there'll be people who'll rightfully question the accuracy of the findings so why not pre-emptively dispel such things by using only common players?

lots of superstar jerseys do have the same tagging as common players. and many don't. how and why would you set up the arduous process of sifting through all of that if you don't have to? what possible benefit does throwing HOF jerseys into the mix add? it's a lot of risk for no benefit at all.

it's a long held theory by many in this hobby that if you want to find out how a jersey "should be", you look at a common player. ie: a player who has little to no risk of being faked. a player who didn't order a ton of jerseys for the sole sake of charities, give aways, replacing stolen shirts, etc. you want a textbook example and many times superstar HOFers aren't textbook examples. some are and some aren't. you'd need to sift out each one and why would you add more work to this whole process? if i wanted to know the proper, textbook tagging for the 1990 A's, i'd look at gallego, blankenship, lansford, javier, honeycutt. what possible benefit, for the sole purpose of trying to ascertain tagging, would throwing mcgwire and canseco into the mix add? so i can then spend hours more on top of it all trying to determine if i even have legit mcgwires and cansecos to start with? the odds of a blankenship being faked are almost nil. the odds of a mcgwire being faked are extremely high. but you want to throw it into the mix anyway..why? just to make things even harder? just to reduce the odds of coming to an accurate conclusion? or just because you enjoy doing more than is necessary?

So in your theory how would you evaluate a jersey of a superstar. What would be your base point?

this isn't about evaluating superstar jerseys is it? this is about determining whether mcauliffe sold retail shirts and whether those shirts had different tagging than pro shirts.

to answer your question anyway, i'd evaluate the jersey of a superstar once i already had an accurate baseline for the tagging, which at this point doesn't seem that we do in regards to mcauliffe. if i was evaluating a mcgwire then i'd only do so after knowing how the blankenship, honeycutt, and gallego were tagged. the baseline, as held by many in this hobby,
should the common player shirt, not the superstar for obvious reasons.

rudy.

[1986&2004Bosox]

king i will respectfully disagree as we have seen no rhyme or reason to the tagging and MEARS excuse Dave M of Mears admits as much in the post on the website today. In which he states that retail's (if they do exist) in his opinion can have both blue bordered tags or non blue bordered tags. The only constant is that there is no constant in regards to McAuliffe tagging.

Your argument is flawed you have to evaluate each jersey Superstar or common on the same factors so a Walt Wise or a Jose Canseco A's should both be held to the same standard.

Just as a McAuliffe Yaz or a McAuliffe Reggie Cleveland should both be evaluated under the same standard.

Your position that it would take to much time is laughable that's what research is.

Also the long held theory of :


"look at a common player to see how a jersey should be tagged" does not hold water.

Case in point common player David Pauley, Devern Hanseck, Mike Stanton Red Sox jerseys all lacked the strip tag that 2005-current Red Sox jerseys have yet all were road shirts and all were late season call ups or trades, all were purchased from the team and all have the 0062 was tag.

Since they are commons that lack the strip tag should all 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 Red Sox Jerseys lack the strip tag? If that were the case then all stripped tagged shirts would be fakes correct?

There is no certainity in the hobby in regards to tagging. Font, color, material yes but tagging no.