Pete Rose possible reinstatement..

[tacprc]

Based on what I know about Pete, I don't believe that he would spend a penny out of his own pocket to buy one of his bats in an auction. He's shameless, hungry for cash, and besides there is nothing illegal about using a corked bat in batting practice.

I guess it's possible that a casino might buy an alleged corked bat as a favor to Pete, but $100K is a big favor. Plus, if the casino intended to give the bat to Pete or just destroy it, then why did it publicize the purchase instead of remaining anonymous and keeping quiet?

[Bobby Jenks]

First of all, Rose signed an agreement to be banned to stop the investigation. John Dowd, who headed it, believes had he been given more time, he would have proven Rose bet against the Reds.

You're trying to hold water with a broken bucket. I can find no sources that even mention Dowd even hinting at Rose betting against his team. And if Rose bet against his own team do you not think the runners would talk about that.

[staindsox]

The article was in the NY Post in early December of 2002. Whether he bet for or against his team is immaterial. A manager can misuse how he uses his players, particularly his bullpen, in order to cover bets. Would you use your best middle innings man for three innings against the Royals or Pirates with a five run lead? You might if you have a bet on it, especially if you bet you would win by 4 or more runs. That reliever then needs a few days to recover because you overused him. He's shot for the next series when the Dodgers or Yankees come to town, so you don't have your best middle innings guy for a tough series...this hurts the team. This would be far less an issue had Pete bet on a Tigers Twins game, a game in which he had absolutely no influence on the outcome. By betting on his own team, he was in a situation where he could mismanage a team because of bets. Even if his team won the game he bet on, the way he manages could hurt their overall record. This is the point.

[staindsox]

I am not arguing about Rose as a player. That is a different issue. What I want to know, putting the issue of legal vs. illegal gambling aside, who here on the forum is comfortable with players, managers, and coaches betting on their games (if even they always bet to win)?

[suicide_squeeze]

I believe that Pete sanded his black Mizuno bats because the varnish chipped and/or he wanted to be able to see the ball marks.

Pete sanded all of his black Mizuno bats -- several dozen in both 1985 and 1986. Very few, if any, have cork inserts.

That always came off to me as a laughable explanation....."he wanted to see the ball marks."

How better to see a ball mark than on a black laquer painted barrel of a bat? If you sand off the paint, the raw wood grain will show some of the ball mark, but not as much as the black finish would. You can see the stitching marks from the ball easily on the black finish.....the impression it leaves is unmistakable. There are much harder to see on raw wood.


In any case, getting back to the corked bats, I know of ONE for sure.

I own it.

I've met Pete Rose, and took a few pictures with him holding the bat. He acknowledged to Rod Carew and Tony Gwynn at the signing that it was a bat he gave to one of his old coaches , and was stated to them he was perplexed by the fact that old friends he had given game items to had, apparently over the years turned around and sold them off for money. This is kinda how it went down:

When I was at the show, I was fiddling with my camera with the bat leaning up against me in a clear bat tube, and there were a many people busstling around. All of a sudden, I hear a voice say "Now there's a nice bat". I look up, and no more than 10 feet from me is Pete Rose, standing in the crowd, taking pictures with fans. I was blown away....caught off guard. I told him "Yes, It's one of your '85 gamers." He said "I see that...Where did you get it? I told him I won it in a major sports auction. I said I wanted to get a few baseballs signed by him, but I brought the bat to see if he would be kind enough to take a picture or two with me, and the bat. Without hesitation he said "Sure, wait until the line dies down, then take it out of the tube and bring it up there to me"....pointing to where he's be sitting. He asked to see it. I handed it to him, and he read the inscription on it. He asked me how much I paid for it.....you know Pete, never shy when it comes to money. I told him "$7,000". He handed it back to me as he looked off in the distance like he was thinking "Damn.....and to think I just gave this away...."

A very weird moment for me.

Once I got up to the finally see him, he waved his hand as to say "Give me the bat..." I took it out, and he instantly stood up and took some practice swings with it, then turned to Tony Gwynn and Rod Carew and said what I mentioned earlier.

Rod shook his head as if too say "What a shame"....and Tony Gwynn blurted out "Well I would have done the same thing, Pete, because you're worth a LOT of money!" They all laughed while Pete just forced out a big perplexed grin.

The bat has his custom tape job, the proper staining from the pine tar, Pete's signature and inscription to his friend........and the part that I found most amazing....

When I won the bat in an auction, finally received it, took it out of the bat tube, the first thing I remember thinking while I was holding it was "Wow, Pete's bat feels light?" Then, it hit me. No way! Could this thing be corked? NAWWWW! I spun it around and looked at the end of the barrel under a light in my kitchen, and a chill ran down my spine. You can see the start of a perfect round 3/4" hole starting to separate through the paint on the barrel end of the bat where it had been plugged, and them painted over. I immediately called around a few x-ray places and finally found one that would x-ray the bat.

The whole office stopped, and stood around me as I pulled the bat out and explained to them why I was there. The head x-ray tech said, "Well, if it's corked, we'll know in a minute....". I'll never forget the look on his face as he walked out of the developing room with the x-ray in his hand. He was smirking at me, never taking his eyes off of me as he walked over to the light box, released the clamp at the top to hold the x-ray, and he shoved it in place, let go of the clamp, turned his back to me and walked away. I said out loud, "It's not corked?? I didn't think....OH MY GOD!"

I looked at the lit up x-ray on the lighted backgound.

It has a 6" long piece of cork, clearly visible in the barrel, filled in with about a 5" long wood plug. The bat is absolutely pounded with use. The paint on the end of the barrel had just started to seperate due to 20+ years of existence. We were all shocked to say the least. I actually was a bit saddened by this discovery. I told them I would not be doing anything with the bat until Pete had his day in being reinstated, as I wanted nothing to do with adding to his troubles. I liked him (he was a hell of a nice guy when I met him), he was a great ballplayer, and I felt he deserved to be in the Hall in light of his gambling errors as I didn't see they were meant to hurt the integrity of the game (even though they were wrong, and about as poor of judgement as he could have ever used.)

My last comment on the whole event, was something that I found very strange. While Pete was holding it, he looked at me and, while rubbing his finger lightly over the inscription, he said "Why don't you rub off all of this garbage and just leave my signature on it? That would be much nicer, don't you think?" I put my hands up and said "NO....it means a lot more to the provenance of the bat, and actually makes it worth more!" Again, he kind of looked perplexed and said "Really........O.K."

I wonder to this day if he wanted to disassociate the guy he gave the bat to, with the fact that he had given that bat. Did he know it was corked? Why would he suggest to remove that inscription? I still wonder....

[suicide_squeeze]

I am not arguing about Rose as a player. That is a different issue. What I want to know, putting the issue of legal vs. illegal gambling aside, who here on the forum is comfortable with players, managers, and coaches betting on their games (if even they always bet to win)?

I am not comfortable with it.

But on a side note........do you actually believe it NEVER happens?

I am SURE there are a small handful of people in baseball who partake in the practice.......most definately through a friend or family relative. And, as with Pete, it's an honest bet, a gesture to try to win a little cash for something you feel strongly about.....in no way made to attack the integrity of the game......in no way causing another action to insure victory.

Pete Rose just took it to a whole new level, and being who he was, and what he had accomplished in the game......well, what can you say? He is living his own self-inflicted hell. I say forgive him already. Don't allow him back in the game in an active role, but reinstate him, with stipulations, so he can at least see his day for voting on induction to the Hall. He deserves that, IMO.

[tacprc]

suicide squeeze wrote, "That always came off to me as a laughable explanation....."he wanted to see the ball marks." How better to see a ball mark than on a black laquer painted barrel of a bat? If you sand off the paint, the raw wood grain will show some of the ball mark, but not as much as the black finish would. You can see the stitching marks from the ball easily on the black finish.....the impression it leaves is unmistakable. There are much harder to see on raw wood."

Rose's black Mizuno bats were not merely stained black, they had a hard lacquer finish.

Again, I believe that Pete sanded his black Mizuno bats because the finish chipped and/or he wanted to be able to better see the ball marks.

Remember that Pete sanded all of his black Mizuno bats -- several dozen in both 1985 and 1986. Very few, if any, have cork inserts.

I am sure that Pete would explain why he sanded his bats if someone asked him. I will do so if I ever get the chance.

[frikativ54]

That always came off to me as a laughable explanation....."he wanted to see the ball marks."

How better to see a ball mark than on a black laquer painted barrel of a bat? If you sand off the paint, the raw wood grain will show some of the ball mark, but not as much as the black finish would. You can see the stitching marks from the ball easily on the black finish.....the impression it leaves is unmistakable. There are much harder to see on raw wood.


In any case, getting back to the corked bats, I know of ONE for sure.

I own it.

I've met Pete Rose, and took a few pictures with him holding the bat. He acknowledged to Rod Carew and Tony Gwynn at the signing that it was a bat he gave to one of his old coaches , and was stated to them he was perplexed by the fact that old friends he had given game items to had, apparently over the years turned around and sold them off for money. This is kinda how it went down:

When I was at the show, I was fiddling with my camera with the bat leaning up against me in a clear bat tube, and there were a many people busstling around. All of a sudden, I hear a voice say "Now there's a nice bat". I look up, and no more than 10 feet from me is Pete Rose, standing in the crowd, taking pictures with fans. I was blown away....caught off guard. I told him "Yes, It's one of your '85 gamers." He said "I see that...Where did you get it? I told him I won it in a major sports auction. I said I wanted to get a few baseballs signed by him, but I brought the bat to see if he would be kind enough to take a picture or two with me, and the bat. Without hesitation he said "Sure, wait until the line dies down, then take it out of the tube and bring it up there to me"....pointing to where he's be sitting. He asked to see it. I handed it to him, and he read the inscription on it. He asked me how much I paid for it.....you know Pete, never shy when it comes to money. I told him "$7,000". He handed it back to me as he looked off in the distance like he was thinking "Damn.....and to think I just gave this away...."

A very weird moment for me.

Once I got up to the finally see him, he waved his hand as to say "Give me the bat..." I took it out, and he instantly stood up and took some practice swings with it, then turned to Tony Gwynn and Rod Carew and said what I mentioned earlier.

Rod shook his head as if too say "What a shame"....and Tony Gwynn blurted out "Well I would have done the same thing, Pete, because you're worth a LOT of money!" They all laughed while Pete just forced out a big perplexed grin.

The bat has his custom tape job, the proper staining from the pine tar, Pete's signature and inscription to his friend........and the part that I found most amazing....

When I won the bat in an auction, finally received it, took it out of the bat tube, the first thing I remember thinking while I was holding it was "Wow, Pete's bat feels light?" Then, it hit me. No way! Could this thing be corked? NAWWWW! I spun it around and looked at the end of the barrel under a light in my kitchen, and a chill ran down my spine. You can see the start of a perfect round 3/4" hole starting to separate through the paint on the barrel end of the bat where it had been plugged, and them painted over. I immediately called around a few x-ray places and finally found one that would x-ray the bat.

The whole office stopped, and stood around me as I pulled the bat out and explained to them why I was there. The head x-ray tech said, "Well, if it's corked, we'll know in a minute....". I'll never forget the look on his face as he walked out of the developing room with the x-ray in his hand. He was smirking at me, never taking his eyes off of me as he walked over to the light box, released the clamp at the top to hold the x-ray, and he shoved it in place, let go of the clamp, turned his back to me and walked away. I said out loud, "It's not corked?? I didn't think....OH MY GOD!"

I looked at the lit up x-ray on the lighted backgound.

It has a 6" long piece of cork, clearly visible in the barrel, filled in with about a 5" long wood plug. The bat is absolutely pounded with use. The paint on the end of the barrel had just started to seperate due to 20+ years of existence. We were all shocked to say the least. I actually was a bit saddened by this discovery. I told them I would not be doing anything with the bat until Pete had his day in being reinstated, as I wanted nothing to do with adding to his troubles. I liked him (he was a hell of a nice guy when I met him), he was a great ballplayer, and I felt he deserved to be in the Hall in light of his gambling errors as I didn't see they were meant to hurt the integrity of the game (even though they were wrong, and about as poor of judgement as he could have ever used.)

My last comment on the whole event, was something that I found very strange. While Pete was holding it, he looked at me and, while rubbing his finger lightly over the inscription, he said "Why don't you rub off all of this garbage and just leave my signature on it? That would be much nicer, don't you think?" I put my hands up and said "NO....it means a lot more to the provenance of the bat, and actually makes it worth more!" Again, he kind of looked perplexed and said "Really........O.K."

I wonder to this day if he wanted to disassociate the guy he gave the bat to, with the fact that he had given that bat. Did he know it was corked? Why would he suggest to remove that inscription? I still wonder....

Best story I've read in a while. Thanks for sharing.

[tacprc]

suicide squeeze, why don't you ask Rose about the bat the next time you see him, and see what he has to say about it?

Aren't there many legitimate reasons why Rose might have such a bat (e.g., training, batting practice, rehab following an injury, just for fun)?

[33bird]

I don't buy the part about sanding the bat to see if the bat was starting to splint, etc. I had a Rose Mizuno-not shaved-and you could perfectly see the raising of wood and dead wood, etc. with the black on there. In a Joe Morgan book I have he said he and Pete would clean the barrel of their bats with rubbing alcohol after each game so they could see if they were hitting the ball on the good wood. I believe that's why he sanded his Mizunos-same reason. By shaving you wouldn't have to rub them clean after each game. Just my 2 cents. Also, I've never heard of betting a baseball game to win by 4 runs or more. In Vegas you can take a bet to win by 1.5 runs or you get +1.5 runs if you're the dog. Some of what you say makes sense, but when you say he bet his team to win by 4+ runs I don't think you know what you're talking about when it comes to gambling.