Baseball Jersey - Can Someone Explain This?

[legaleagle92481]

guys time to brush up on your history. tim mccarver who has forgetten more about baseball then any of us will ever know once said 76 had his vote for greatest team ever. there is good reason to support that statement. they were the only team EVER in mlb history to sweep the playoffs and the world series. they led all of baseball in 10 major stat categories, something again no team has EVER done. seven of their eight regulars made the allstar team. the 75 team won more regular season games but was not as domainant. the team also marked the end of the reds run as after the season they traded perez and the next year they finished second with 14 less wins than in 76. as we all know they would go titleless until the lou pinella team that was devoid of legendary players except for barry larkin a borderline hofer.

[aeneas01]

What would possess someone to alter a Mears authenticated 75 Rose to a fake 76 is beyond my (and I assume most others) comprehension.

i think it was altered before it was sent to mears for evaluation. as such mears described it in their loo as a 1976 jersey, not a 1975. dave grob mentioned in his piece that the reds' 1975 and 1976 road jerseys were basically the same, so it was the patch that ultimately drove the 1976 description. at least that's my understanding...

but i'm with you, why change a 1975 rose shirt into a 1976 rose shirt? especially given rose won the 1975 world series mvp as you mentioned. i'm no jersey guy, but it seems that it could have even been argued that the shirt was quite possibly worn by rose during the '75 series, when he won his ws mvp. that would be more valuable than a '76 rose shirt, no?

who knows, maybe the person who altered the shirt did so because he got wind of a collector looking for 1976 bicentennial items, perhaps specifically from the reds, willing to pony up a sturdy price. seems like someone was asking around the forum for bicentennial reds bats not too long ago....

whatever the case, this looks pretty darn bad, pretty darn embarrassing... btw i wonder if the person who altered the shirt got the idea of the black magic marker set number from these reds' shirts that have sold at auction:






...

[dcrules01]

So was Greg the one that altered it. I remember his thread about aquiring the 75 Rose jersey. And now that the jersey was altered does it devalue the 75. Times are tough for everyone but why ruin a valuable piece. Also Dave mentioned Greg aquired a 76 with the bicentennial patch and then resold that jersey without the patch. I have dealt with Greg on a few occasions he has always been upfront with me when I have been looking for items. It would be ashame if this was done. I would love to find a 76 Youngblood or Flynn jersey with the patch but if I am correct they were recycled. Any possibility that Rose was giving the same jersey he wore in 75 to be used again in 76? A lot of collectors like patches I do also. I have a 78 road Youngblood for the Mets. Hope to find a 79-82 one day with his name on the back. This would be like me stripping the 78 and having his name added on the back. I would never do that. I also was baffled when krukcards listed a 79 road Mets Richie Hebner but the tagging said it was set 1 and had the number 18 Youngbloods number. Also had the outline of a longer nameplate for Youngbloods name but it was Hebners.. All we as collectors can do is do out homework ourselves. The thing that bothers me I'd the fact that it seems Greg tried selling the jersey even as Dave requested the original documentation bacj. Only Greg can answer this but as he was not obligated to provide proof that he has both jerseys in his possesion wouldn't any of us do that just to show that we were innocent. I know I would have no problem.

[Number9]

The part I dont understand is why RUIN in 75 jersey, a jersey I assume is worth 5 grand or more. I mean you cant get that sharpie off without likely damaging part of the tag and if you take that patch off you likely will have some stitch damage. So to me it is ruined.
Now it is neither a 1976 jersey or an all-original 1975 jersey.
At least with a bad jersey someone tries to turn into a good one, its not a financial risk, but with this one you risk (and ruin) a $5,000 jersey. Doesn't make sense.

[diamondicons]

This is disappointing…the hobby now has one less legitimate 1974-1975 Rose jersey. After Greg indicated he had a 76 Rose, I made multiple attempts to purchase his 75. Now I know why he declined. I know Greg’s primary emphasis was the 1976 Reds. He had multiple 76 bats and purchased my 76 Gullett. Even so, his intentional alteration of the jersey to make it appear as a 76 makes no sense. Fortunately for the hobby, the issue surfaced and was investigated by Dave Grob…otherwise there would be a 1976 Rose MEARS 10 that no one would have questioned.

[Dewey2007]

I agree this is disappointing too. I have bought and sold a couple of items with Greg and he always seemed like a passionate collector especially with 75-76 Reds items. The evidence seems pretty overwhelming so not sure why he would risk do something like this especially to a Rose jersey from that era. It looks like another vintage jersey bites the dust...

[LWMM]

I wouldn't be so quick to call the Rose jersey "ruined" or "lost". It's certainly not all original anymore, but I bet that the patch could be removed without leaving terribly obtrusive stitch marks (hey, it's better than a gamer that's been sewn onto a matte for framing), and perhaps a dry cleaner could suggest a way to remove or fade the mark ("2") on the tag. It's dissapointing that the jersey was altered, and it looks at this point as if Greg's reputation is trashed, but I think the jersey can be turned into a moderately restored 1975 Rose gamer without much effort.

[tacprc]

I think that the missing piece of information here is that the original Pete Rose road jersey could be dated to either 1974 or 1975. I don't believe that it is possible to reliably distinguish between those two years -- as regards Reds road jerseys.

All things equal in terms of game use, etc., a 1976 Pete Rose road jersey would be worth at least 20% more than a 1974-5 Pete Rose road jersey.

[Titans74]

I agree this is disappointing too. I have bought and sold a couple of items with Greg and he always seemed like a passionate collector especially with 75-76 Reds items. The evidence seems pretty overwhelming so not sure why he would risk do something like this especially to a Rose jersey from that era. It looks like another vintage jersey bites the dust...

People risk their so-called reputations over things like this typically for two reasons. They are greedy and they never expect to be caught. When caught they usually disappear for a certain amount of time only to reappear either with a boatload of excuses and a sob story about what made them do it or they just reinvent themselves under a new internet id.

Either way, once a thief always a thief. A dishonest person gets no sympathy from me.

[bagbig]

This is shameful and fraudulent!!!! Didn't Greg Walker have a fake bat that there is a long thread on as well?? Where there is smoke, there is fire.