What's a "fair" price to pay for a Hines Ward 2001 away game jersey?

[Shipp_96]

Preston,

Sorry, I got sidetracked from my original purpose for posting on this thread. I actually came on here to show you a Mewelde Moore away Steelers jersey Jo Sports are selling, so I know this one is legit. Hope this helps with comparison shots against the Ward jersey. This is going for $3k, BTW.

[legaleagle92481]

I disagree completely with this statement. Not hall worthy? Michael Irvin is in the hall, for Pete's sake! Hines is the all time Steelers receiving leader, a two time Super Bowl Champion and three time participant, and a Super Bowl MVP. I would not say it is so hard to believe he may get to Canton someday.

Just for fun, let's compare a HOFer Irvin vs Ward:

Ward: 954 Receptions, 11,702 YDs, 83 TDs-Two time Super Bowl Champ, Super Bowl XL MVP

Irvin: 750 Receptions, 11,904 YDs, 87 TDs-Three Time Super Bowl Champ

Look pretty damn close to me, and Ward is still playing. Plus, let's not forget Irvin's off the field issues as well. Hines is like a choir boy compared to him. Plus he just won Dancing with the Stars (LOL)!

Ward got his numbers in 202 games, except for receptions Irvin posted superior numbers in only 159 games. Irvin won one more super bowl and in his prime was considered the number two wideout in the league behind Rice. Ward was considered behind Rice, Moss, Owens and Harrison among others early in his career and now he is behind at least 15 guys. Being alltime leading receiver on Steelers means nothing they are a run first team traditionally.

[Shipp_96]

Ward got his numbers in 202 games, except for receptions Irvin posted superior numbers in only 159 games. Irvin won one more super bowl and in his prime was considered the number two wideout in the league behind Rice. Ward was considered behind Rice, Moss, Owens and Harrison among others early in his career and now he is behind at least 15 guys. Being alltime leading receiver on Steelers means nothing they are a run first team traditionally.

First, I presented statistical facts to validate my point of view, you present your opinion. Seriously, I have never understood why someone like yourself who is a self proclaimed Steeler hater (from previous posts you have made) always posts on Steeler related threads? That is a factual observation. I personally loathe the Ravens and Skins, so I would never comment on players from those teams, because I do not like them.

You "claim" Irvin was number two behind Rice? Really? I used to watch alot of football in the 90s, and I think Cris Carter would have something to say about that! For my money, Andre Rison was considered more a deep threat than Irvin back then. Also, Jerry Rice was an old man when Hines was in his prime, so comparing them when they were both playing does not make sense, either. And don't get me wrong, I LOVE Jerry Rice and consider him the finest player in NFL history.

Also, John Stallworth put up HOF numbers, and that is who Hines passed for number one all-time. Maybe you do not watch the Steelers, but I have my whole life, and Stallworth was MUCH better than the WRs you listed (like Owens & Harrison). So how are those numbers not relevant, just because he is on the Steelers?

I really do not want to make this a public p!ssing match, which it is already turning into. You do not like the Steelers, so that is really what you base your opinion on. I was just trying to present a factual, stat based comparison.

[Preston]

First, I presented statistical facts to validate my point of view, you present your opinion. Seriously, I have never understood why someone like yourself who is a self proclaimed Steeler hater (from previous posts you have made) always posts on Steeler related threads? That is a factual observation. I personally loathe the Ravens and Skins, so I would never comment on players from those teams, because I do not like them.

You "claim" Irvin was number two behind Rice? Really? I used to watch alot of football in the 90s, and I think Cris Carter would have something to say about that! For my money, Andre Rison was considered more a deep threat than Irvin back then. Also, Jerry Rice was an old man when Hines was in his prime, so comparing them when they were both playing does not make sense, either. And don't get me wrong, I LOVE Jerry Rice and consider him the finest player in NFL history.

Also, John Stallworth put up HOF numbers, and that is who Hines passed for number one all-time. Maybe you do not watch the Steelers, but I have my whole life, and Stallworth was MUCH better than the WRs you listed (like Owens & Harrison). So how are those numbers not relevant, just because he is on the Steelers?

I really do not want to make this a public p!ssing match, which it is already turning into. You do not like the Steelers, so that is really what you base your opinion on. I was just trying to present a factual, stat based comparison.

While I agree that Hines Ward is arguably a Hall of Famer, I'm not asking if he is a Hall of Famer, I'm asking about the jersey...so as they say on SNL in the Jimmy Fallon skit, "simma down....now!" LOL

[legaleagle92481]

First, I presented statistical facts to validate my point of view, you present your opinion. Seriously, I have never understood why someone like yourself who is a self proclaimed Steeler hater (from previous posts you have made) always posts on Steeler related threads? That is a factual observation. I personally loathe the Ravens and Skins, so I would never comment on players from those teams, because I do not like them.

You "claim" Irvin was number two behind Rice? Really? I used to watch alot of football in the 90s, and I think Cris Carter would have something to say about that! For my money, Andre Rison was considered more a deep threat than Irvin back then. Also, Jerry Rice was an old man when Hines was in his prime, so comparing them when they were both playing does not make sense, either. And don't get me wrong, I LOVE Jerry Rice and consider him the finest player in NFL history.

Also, John Stallworth put up HOF numbers, and that is who Hines passed for number one all-time. Maybe you do not watch the Steelers, but I have my whole life, and Stallworth was MUCH better than the WRs you listed (like Owens & Harrison). So how are those numbers not relevant, just because he is on the Steelers?

I really do not want to make this a public p!ssing match, which it is already turning into. You do not like the Steelers, so that is really what you base your opinion on. I was just trying to present a factual, stat based comparison.

Lol. Wow. When did I say I hate the Steelers? I don't hate the Steelers. In fact I rooted for them in the Super Bowl. I like Ward, always have. I just objectively don't think he will make Canton. It is so hard for receivers to get in. Cris Carter, Andre Reed, Tim Brown were all very good players, Carter and Brown had stats far superior to Ward and none of those three has gotten in. It took recent HOF WRs many tries to get in including Art Monk, James Lofton and Bob Hayes. And your guy Stallworth got in what 15 years after his last game! Swann took forever to get in as well. The only guys who got in relatively fast were Rice (1st ballot) and Irvin (3rd ballot). Additionally, Shannon Sharpe was essentially a receiver and despite the best numbers ever for a TE when he retired he took several tries to get in. When Ward is eligible he will be competing against in addition to possibly some of the Carter, Reed and Brown group: Issac Bruce, Torry Holt, Terrell Owens, Moss, Marvin Harrision, Rod Smith, Jimmy Smith, Chad Ochocinco, and two TEs who are essentially wideouts: Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates. That is stiff competition. Is Ward really so much better than any of the guys listed above that he should jump them all and have an easy time getting in? In fact most of them have numbers far superior to his that in some cases dwarf his. Super Bowls don't mean much for wideouts either as they have a limited impact on a team's success unlike say QBs.. They didn't help Monk, Stallworth and Swann much and all had more than Ward does. Comparing him to Irvin is silly. Irvin put up superior numbers save for receptions in 43 less games. It hurts Ward's case that it took him almost three more seasons to put up the same numbers as Irvin. Irvin's numbers are low for a Hall of Famer as well because his career ended so suddenly with that hit in Philly at a fairly young age. He was coming off two seasons of 70 plus receptions and 1,000 plus yards at the time so it is safe to say I would have added to this numbers if he had not been hurt. I said he was the second best wideout of his era because noone but him and Rice are in the HOF from that time. The writers are suppossed to be the experts so I defer to them on that point. Rison has never really been considered and Carter has been unsuccessful four times now and if you look at the upcoming players who will be eligible it might be awhile before he gets in. As far as Stallworth he played in a much less pass friendly era on a running and defense orientated team so his numbers are not overly impressive compared to modern standards, so IMO topping those numbers is not remarkable enough of a feat that it makes him HOF bound. Every team has a leading receiver they all can't make Canton. If I were spending $5,000 to $8,000 on a jersey I would want it to be of a surefire, first ballot HOF legend rather than a guy who very well may not make it and if he does it will take him a long time.

[Shipp_96]

Yawn...I'm done. I just do not like when someone throws out an automatic "let's be real, he is not going to be a HOFer" statement like it is fact and expects everyone to accept it as such.

Preston, I apologize for bogarting your thread with this pettiness (much of it on my end), because I know you were simply asking for information post.

[Preston]

Preston, I apologize for bogarting your thread with this pettiness (much of it on my end), because I know you were simply asking for information post.

Not a problem! I agree that Ward is eventually a Hall of Famer, but there are a lot of guys, Carter, Reed, Tim Brown, etc etc not to mention the other receivers who will be eligible around the time - Randy Moss, TO, etc. And I'm ALL for defending my stance on something (just ask my wife!)

But I am passing on the jersey unless the seller provides ROCK SOLID authentication. Plus, I'd almost rather have the Eddie George jersey my guy has - hopefully I can talk him out of it!

[kprst6]

All I am going to say is an item's value is solely what a person is willing to pay for an item.

People that complain an item isn't worth X amount need to look in the mirror and realize that just because an item isn't worth X amount to them, doesn't mean there aren't 20 other people out there willing to pay X amount. There is no need to convince someone otherwise and this thread shows why I never try to deal with any collectors as they will always try to convince you that your item is worth less than what you paid for it.

I deem people that justify their purchases and talk trash on others because they think their thoughts and value of an item are the only opinion that matters as being a Fanboy. Fanboy's should not be taken seriously and IMO lose all credibility once their opinions surface. They talk trash and then justify their trash by saying they like the team, item, etc they are talking trash on to validate their points. By the looks of it, there are ulterior motives with some of these posts.

[freddiefreeman5]

All I am going to say is an item's value is solely what a person is willing to pay for an item.

People that complain an item isn't worth X amount need to look in the mirror and realize that just because an item isn't worth X amount to them, doesn't mean there aren't 20 other people out there willing to pay X amount. There is no need to convince someone otherwise and this thread shows why I never try to deal with any collectors as they will always try to convince you that your item is worth less than what you paid for it.

I deem people that justify their purchases and talk trash on others because they think their thoughts and value of an item are the only opinion that matters as being a Fanboy. Fanboy's should not be taken seriously and IMO lose all credibility once their opinions surface. They talk trash and then justify their trash by saying they like the team, item, etc they are talking trash on to validate their points. By the looks of it, there are ulterior motives with some of these posts.

This should be required reading for all new members. Good post!

[Preston]

per the seller...FWIW

"yes it has a hologram on the neck tag. I purchased the jersey from Pro Sports Investments and it is their hologram. I haven't been able to locate the COA but I will look around again. Steeler jerseys are tough since the team doesn't sell their jerseys. If they find the light of day it's done either through a charity or out the back door. I've had it looked at a couple of times and gotten both the thumbs up & the thumbs down. Aside from the repair there really isn't much on the jersey. There are a couple of faint marks, one on the right shoulder and a couple under the right under arm. As you can see from the pics, the bottom is cut off . It does have a care label on the inside."

I think I have heard of PSI and I believe they are reputable, are they not?