6 charged with fraud

[xpress34]

I understand some of the points from other posters stating that if an item costs that much you would expect the company to have already done the homework in matching it, making sure its compatible with the dates expressed ... etc. But regardless of all that is it up to you, to make sure what your buying is legit regardless of price. Yes you go on reputation but even if JO was absolutely as clean as a whistle, I wouldnt go based of reputation, i would still do my homework as a safety net just in case.

Based on this statement - and I know you're not the only one on this thread that believes this - in your mind then, there is no need for any type of Guarantee from the seller as verifying that the jersey is what it is purported to be is laid squarely on the Buyer. A reputation means nothing to you, so any Guarantee wouldn't make any difference either.

If you do believe the seller should offer a Guarantee, then how can you not also put ALL of the responsibility on the seller to verify it's legitimate before ever even considering offering it for sale?

We are finally making progress, in a world of trolls and clowns!!!

Wow! Anyone whose not a JO supporter or drinking the Kool-Aid hat you, 34swtns, etc are pouring is a Troll or a Clown? That tells me all I need to know about you.

And yes it does "limit my collection". It keeps my collection free of the crap that some uneducated schmuck might buy on a gamble.
I only "gamble" on a sure thing.

Again, WOW! So because someone is a newbie, they are an 'uneducated schmuck'? I guess you came out of the womb with all the knowledge you needed to just jump right in and photo match, etc? You never had to learn anything? It must be tough to hold up you swollen head.

And if it's a sure thing, it's not a gamble.

--------------------------------------------

34swtns, Pale Hose, etc - you guys are the exact 'Elitist Snobs' I mentioned earlier and I'm certain I will never have any type of dealings with any of you in the future. Your attitudes towards others in this hobby are just as much a part of the problem as JO, Mitch and others trying to pass off junk to unassuming or new collector's.

Also based on the comments you guys and your ilk have posted, you would be okay if someone in your family (mom, sister, grandma, etc)was taken by one of these guys while trying to buy you a gift, because they very well be 'uneducated schmucks' or 'trolls and clowns' who didn't know they had to do 'homework' to buy from a 'Reputable' dealer.

It's okay though and I'm sure you'll sleep well, because after all, it wouldn't be YOUR money...

- Smitty





I only "gamble" on a sure thing.

[34swtns]

Jarrod would be foolish to say ANYTHING before this has been litigated.

He's very well aware of that. Don't hold your breath waiting for any statement. it's not coming and it shouldn't be.

[cubbs1232]

Hello Michael,


I will say that it is my understanding that the alleged charges stem from issues prior to JO Sports starting his team deals. In fact, it is my understanding that JO started the team deals to try get legitimate merchandise directly rather than dealing with the so-called "sources" referenced in articles.


Sincerely,
Chris

does it really matter when it took place?

[masp3392]

Based on this statement - and I know you're not the only one on this thread that believes this - in your mind then, there is no need for any type of Guarantee from the seller as verifying that the jersey is what it is purported to be is laid squarely on the Buyer. A reputation means nothing to you, so any Guarantee wouldn't make any difference either.

If you do believe the seller should offer a Guarantee, then how can you not also put ALL of the responsibility on the seller to verify it's legitimate before ever even considering offering it for sale?

I never said a reputation means nothing to me. As i stated even if JO was as clean as a whistle and their reputation was through the roof, I would still do my homework on a purchase, especially when that purchase is over $1000. I don't have loads of money to throw around in this hobby and i'm still fairly new to this, but i've always done a fair share of homework before i purchased any of my college jerseys. In the beginning sometimes i got screwed and thats how I learned. Sometimes thats an unfortunate way of learning in this hobby.

All im saying is, people should do homework regardless if the reputation is good or not. Dont just buy just to buy. Always have a safety net.

[SaintsGeaux]

Jarrod may say he was naive and was duped into buying from "sources" that took advantage of him and his knowledge. If that was the case, it would NOT be fraud on him. Fraud is -specifically-defined as are time periods. Time periods do not matter unless it was prior to the statute of limitations. Should it matter this happened prior to "team deals", of course not.

My personal opinion is I don't believe excuses of naivety or being duped or being taken advantage of, nor does the FBI. It is the prosecutor's job to prove fraud and a crime as you must show that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements to be considered the crime of fraud:

(1) a false statement of a material fact,
(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue,
(3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim,
(4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and
(5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.

Read this again from the Federal Charges:

3. The object of the scheme to defraud was to sell, consign, or auction jerseys by falsely and fraudulently representing to the buyers that the jerseys were game used, when in fact, as the defendant well knew, the jerseys were not game used.

4. As part of the scheme to defraud, the defendant and others involved in the scheme obtained and caused to be obtained hundreds of jerseys from a variety of sources, including retail sellers.

5. It was also a part of the scheme to defraud that the defendant and others involved in the scheme frequently changed, or caused changes to the jerseys’ appearance by roughening, scuffing, washing, dirtying, or otherwise changing the appearance of the jerseys to make them appear that they had actual “wear and tear.”

6. It was also a part of the scheme to defraud that the defendant and others involved in the scheme re-sold, consigned, and auctioned the same jerseys for hundreds of thousands of dollars to sports trading card companies and other buyers by falsely and fraudulently misrepresenting to the buyers that the jerseys were game used, when in fact, as the defendant well knew, the jerseys were not game used.

7. It was also a part of the scheme to defraud that the when the defendant and others involved in the scheme re-sold many of these jerseys, they provided or caused to be provided to the buyers, certificates of authenticity that falsely and fraudulently misrepresented that the jerseys were game used jerseys.

8. It was also a part of the scheme to defraud that the defendant re-sold the jerseys, or caused the jerseys to be re-sold in the name of JO Sports.

[mad87man]

i still say if the store is selling it they should make sure the product is good. They should be photo matching it saying yeah this was def worn on that day, in this game. When you all go to a jewlery store do you bring all you gold testing equipment to make sure its all real gold or real rolexes? No. Same thing with this. I would hope they are selling real jerseys just as the the Jeweler is selling real gold and rolexes. People go on reputation in this world, people spend a lot more money on a jersey from JO sports b/c of their reputation of bringing real stuff to collectors, now they might not, same with jewelry, if the guy gets caught selling a fake rolex among 100 real ones people are going to question it all the time now.

[SkubeBats]

Palehose for life,
If I knew someone that was just getting into this hobby this thread would be the first thing I would show them on this site. It show shows that you can't even count on the guys you thought were the good ones. Plus it has a lot of other inforation in it. It might also show them what collectors to stay away from!!


Chris Cavalier,
I was wondering if Jarrod Oldridge is forund guilty of fraud by conviction or pleads a deal will he and JO Sports be able to be member on here still?

Also I will they be able to adverstise their buisness or auctions on here?

Will GUU do any JO Sports advertising, joint marketing, etc.??

Also will any of the other guys involved in this will they still be members on here?

I look forward to hearing what you have to say about this Chris!!

[Shipp_96]

You guys keep mentioning photomatching -- how many newbies making their first and perhaps only game used purchase knows about photomatching? I didn't when I purchased my first few jerseys. I did not know how dishonest this business is until I stumbled across this forum. How many customers that have purchased game used memorabilia do you think actually know how to photomatch an item? How many times have we had members post "photomatched" items on this forum only to have other members point out that their item is a style match and not a photomatch? It is very difficult to achieve a perfect photomatch for most items which is why customers who want to purchase a legitimate item search out game used memorabilia businesses such as JO, Steiner, Meigray and others...

I have been reading this soap opera unfold all week, and every time I take a break at work or come home there are more pages to view . I am not going to get into JO and are they or aren't they. The one jersey I own from them I was fortuitous in that he is (or was) a prominent player and I was able to photo-match it. But my problem is with the photo-matching logic. Look, I mainly collect Penn State game worn, and good luck with that. You are dealing many times with obscure players that get little to no photo references, and even if you find one it may not be the right player due to no name plates! They have a cryptic locker tag # system that identifies the player, but no year markings or anything else on the jersey. The only jerseys I own were able to be matched because a fellow alum of mine works with those players at autograph shows and either they have come from the player directly or during the Universities auctions he can tell me that size of the jersey and locker tag combo=this player. So it is dicey at best.

Obviously if I really want a particular player I must then go to NFL equipment to be sure. Even here I love Mei Grey per say but I bought both former Nittany Lions that were Eagles already from them, so now what? There are Seahawks that are also PSU alums, but many times you are buying off of a list with no pictures or it's in their Pro Shop, so you either buy it then or risk losing out. I am not a tech friendly as many and cannot us my phone to look at Getty or whatever to match these while in their store. So, yeah it's directly from the team but I am not photo matching it to a game to verify it's use until usually after the fact. Plus they launder all of their jerseys, which makes it even more difficult. Does this make me a schmuck? Do I deserve to be swindled due to this? Does my wife who knows nothing about the hobby but happens to be up there and notices a player I love is on their rack so buys it for me as a surprise?

The whole topic makes me personally uneasy and adds to my original trepidations of getting into the hobby in the first place as well. Though I make a nice living I also support a family and my funds have to be carefully spent. So obviously I wish I could always say buy directly from the Seahawks or at a "garage" sale up at Penn State, but that's not always the case. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone on here about their opinions on JO but just adding my personal experiences with trying to photo match everything.

[frikativ54]

Also based on the comments you guys and your ilk have posted, you would be okay if someone in your family (mom, sister, grandma, etc)was taken by one of these guys while trying to buy you a gift, because they very well be 'uneducated schmucks' or 'trolls and clowns' who didn't know they had to do 'homework' to buy from a 'Reputable' dealer.

Great point, Smitty. We all had to start somewhere, and many of us where duped in the infancy of our collecting days. But what about our relatives who are just buying a gift for us? Should a name not be backed by trust? I know that if my Mom were buying me a game-used present, she wouldn't know a thing about photomatching. Likely, she would go to a trusted source to find a present for my birthday or some other occasion. It's these people that JO and their ilk are taking advantage of, and this ultimately hurts all of our collections.

When you all go to a jewelry store do you bring all you gold testing equipment to make sure its all real gold or real rolexes? No. Same thing with this. I would hope they are selling real jerseys just as the the Jeweler is selling real gold and rolexes. People go on reputation in this world, people spend a lot more money on a jersey from JO sports b/c of their reputation of bringing real stuff to collectors, now they might not, same with jewelry, if the guy gets caught selling a fake rolex among 100 real ones people are going to question it all the time now.

I totally agree, Mad87Man. In business dealings, people go on reputation. It's pretty pathetic that in the game used industry, we have to arm ourselves with photomatches in order to prevent the slew of fakes that could well enter into our collections. It's sad that the same standards of honesty don't seem to apply in this industry.

And it's even more disconcerting that there are people on here who don't seem to care as long as it's not them or their money. I don't know about you, but when I find out about a dealer who has sold fraudulent things, I stop buying from him and his company. Even if it is my Holy Grail, why purchase it if I cannot be 110 percent certain that it's the real deal?

[34swtns]

And it's even more disconcerting that there are people on here who don't seem to care as long as it's not them or their money. I don't know about you, but when I find out about a dealer who has sold fraudulent things, I stop buying from him and his company.

Still sleep........like a baby.

Like I said, you have to assume anybody can get taken, you just have to educate yourself enough to make sure it's not you. Assume every seller is fallible, do your legwork, and you won't get had.

If all the holier-than-thou's here stopped doing business with every dealer who's ever had an issue and returned everything they've bought from every dealer without a spotless record, your collections would be limited to a couple of items.......maybe.

But you would have that awesome "clear conscience" that's so fun to show off to your friends!