Don Mattingly's disgrace

[xpress34]

No, Smitty, I'm just SMFH. The Dodgers are LOADED with talent. THAT'S why they've been in the play-offs the last two seasons. If you watched the Dodgers on a daily basis, you'd be SYFH at the loses we suffered as a direct result of Mattingly BAD decisions. The team was STILL good enough to win their division. The reason why the Dodgers haven't won it all is because MATTINGLY is LEADING THEM, and his weaknesses are quickly exposed on that stage.

Okay, now you are contradicting yourself.

So the TALENT is what got them to the Playoffs, NOT the Manager, but the TALENT couldn't get them through the playoffs?

If they were good enough TALENT wise to overcome your perceived shortcomings of Don Mattingly to WIN the Division and make the Playoffs, then the TALENT should have been good enough to go all the way regardless of Mattingly.

You can't call it both ways.

That's like the BS that goes on here at Coors Field - Hitters get downplayed for hitting at altitude, but Pitchers aren't given any leeway for pitching at the same altitude.

It has to cut both ways or it's a bogus argument.

Obviously you aren't happy with Mattingly, but - either you have to give him credit for Managing the team to the playoffs, OR you have to give the Talent on the team just as much of the blame for sucking it up in the playoffs.

Just my .02

[xpress34]

Yes, you only won ONE championship in all those years.

But you MADE IT to 5 WORLD SERIES. That's an accomplishment in and of itself.

Again, you make it hard to take your position seriously.

You say here that the Braves made it to 5 WS and Won 1 in 14 years and that's an accomplishment, but Mattingly has only been at the helm for 4 years and has taken the Dodgers from 3rd to 2nd to consecutive 1st Place finishes and you're ready the destroy him already.

How about giving him 14 years like Cox and THEN talking about who accomplished what.

The more I read your comments, the more you come off as a spoiled child who didn't get their way and when you applaud things like the 14 year totals for Bobby Cox and the Braves while berating Mattingly on a 4 year curve, it sounds more like you truly have a deeper personal issue and dislike for Mattingly as a person.

Attacking him as a Manager is just convenient.

Again, just my .02 based on what you have posted.

[3arod13]

How about giving him 14 years like Cox and THEN talking about who accomplished what.

I agree! It sometimes takes more time and the many pieces to come together, before the magic can happen.

[ShaimOnYou]

Smitty (& 3arod13),

You are mixing together bits and pieces of what I clearly stated as separate points into a nice mincemeat pie to state your disagreement with my disdain for Mattingly as a manager. You are certainly entitled and welcome to speak your minds, but please don't tell me I can't have it "both ways" when you are completely redefining the meaning of what I said by combining pieces to illustrate your points. That's simply not true. I'm not having anything both ways nor do I want to.

Yes, the talent of the Dodgers won their Division, DESPITE Don Mattingly. But look who won the World Series AGAIN! The well-managed San Francisco WILD CARD Giants. Why? Because, it is my position, the Dodgers fell asleep in critical situations in the NLDS when a REAL MANAGER needed to make some tough calls. So they lost. Mattingly doesn't understand what managerial skills are needed in the play-offs, where 162 games won't help to spread out and "mask" mistakes. All the talent in the world doesn't work when your manager can't manage in short do-or-die series. Remember, these "players" aren't robots, they're human. Sometimes they run out of gas and need to be removed from action. Without the right guy performing that task, it's DOOMSVILLE.

Next, comparing Mattingly to Cox is a joke, IMO. Bobby Cox didn't have the SAME PLAYERS for the 14 year period we were all discussing. He won with different rosters. Bobby Cox is a Hall of Fame manager. His consistency in winning was unmatched by anyone in his era.

He only won 1 World Championship because the Atlanta Braves ownership never supplied him with an "open checkbook" to buy players like the Dodgers have with Mattingly. But furthermore, and what's getting lost in this discussion, is that Bobby Cox never made decisions during the heat of battle that grossly caused the Braves to LOSE a game. And FAILING to act as a manager is the same thing as acting but under bad choices. Both can cause a team to FAIL.

Don Mattingly has been given a tremendous team of talent. He has shown he can't "manage" it to win the big one. Not even enough semi big ones! I know, because I have watched him "mismanage" this team of talent on several occasions from the Left Field Pavilion at Dodger Stadium, up close and PERSONAL.

I will state again for the record that the ONLY CHANCE the Dodgers have of winning a World Series here in Los Angeles over the course of the next few years (enter your own amount of years, I don't care. But I am basically referring to the roster of talent they have here and now in my discussion), is to FIRE him and hire someone who actually has electrode activity sparking between the ears. He will not win a World Championship as a manager here in Los Angeles, PERIOD. He doesn't possess the ability to lead, motivate, or make the tough decisions a REAL MANAGER needs to. Any team can have a popular-with-the-players "buddy-buddy" manager with his players. That won't win CHAMPIONSHIPS, however.

And if you guys don't agree with me that the two losses Clayton Kershaw suffered in the post season this year aren't a direct reflection of Mattingly's failure to act, his incompetence as a manager to "handle the urgency and moment", then I certainly won't ever convince you otherwise. We simply see things differently.

I just know that what I saw in the 2014 World Series was two SOLID managers MANAGING the pitching to a TEE. As soon as one pitcher showed ANY sign of lost control, as soon as a pitcher walked ONE batter, there was a trip to the mound, and activity in the bullpen. There was "MANAGING" going on. Great, solid, competent, urgency-filled MANAGING for all to witness. And it was a great World Series that went 7 because of it.

It is my contention those things aren't present with Dandy-Donnie, hovering at the bottom step of the dugout. Just fizzled wires and smoke coming from the collar. And walks of disgust to the mound to remove a pitcher long after he should have, after the damage was done. And the "disgust" I'm referring to is from the Dodger FANS, not Don. He's not conscious enough to understand what just happened.

I'm standing by my prediction, and it's really not hard to do. When a buffoon is driving, a crash is soon to follow. The Dodgers are crashing every year. It's painful for Dodger fans to know before it happens that we're doomed to lose year after year with Don at the helm. Winning the Division because the team is so loaded over the course of 162 games is inevitable. But even THAT is in jeopardy with Don (seeing as it took until the last three games of the year to lock it up). If he steps deeper in it next year and actually loses the Division, then I would expect his immediate firing.

But even if we keep winning our Division, I'm not going to back away from my position. I predict this thread will relive itself year after year, with colorful pictures of Don's pathetic post-game interviews while he tries to explain why the Dodgers lost again. (Remember Donnie's "pout-fest" post season interview while sitting uncomfortably far away with arms crossed from Ned Colletti as they stumbled through Mattingly's unhappiness that he wasn't under contract?) The only chance to fix this if for Dodger brass to acknowledge their HUGE mistake of handing Mattingly an extension after he blew the National League Championship Series in 2013 to the Cardinals , and just FIRE HIM ALREADY. If they hadn't given him that gift after he HANDED away game one, arguably changing the WHOLE atmosphere of the series, we would have been able to sign Joe Maddon. Wow, what could have been. Probably three World Championships over the next 4 years. But now we'll never know.

[3arod13]

Smitty (& 3arod13),

You are mixing together bits and pieces of what I clearly stated as separate points into a nice mincemeat pie to state your disagreement with my disdain for Mattingly as a manager. You are certainly entitled and welcome to speak your minds, but please don't tell me I can't have it "both ways" when you are completely redefining the meaning of what I said by combining pieces to illustrate your points. That's simply not true. I'm not having anything both ways nor do I want to.

Yes, the talent of the Dodgers won their Division, DESPITE Don Mattingly. But look who won the World Series AGAIN! The well-managed San Francisco WILD CARD Giants. Why? Because, it is my position, the Dodgers fell asleep in critical situations in the NLDS when a REAL MANAGER needed to make some tough calls. So they lost. Mattingly doesn't understand what managerial skills are needed in the play-offs, where 162 games won't help to spread out and "mask" mistakes. All the talent in the world doesn't work when your manager can't manage in short do-or-die series. Remember, these "players" aren't robots, they're human. Sometimes they run out of gas and need to be removed from action. Without the right guy performing that task, it's DOOMSVILLE.

Next, comparing Mattingly to Cox is a joke, IMO. Bobby Cox didn't have the SAME PLAYERS for the 14 year period we were all discussing. He won with different rosters. Bobby Cox is a Hall of Fame manager. His consistency in winning was unmatched by anyone in his era.

He only won 1 World Championship because the Atlanta Braves ownership never supplied him with an "open checkbook" to buy players like the Dodgers have with Mattingly. But furthermore, and what's getting lost in this discussion, is that Bobby Cox never made decisions during the heat of battle that grossly caused the Braves to LOSE a game. And FAILING to act as a manager is the same thing as acting but under bad choices. Both can cause a team to FAIL.

Don Mattingly has been given a tremendous team of talent. He has shown he can't "manage" it to win the big one. Not even enough semi big ones! I know, because I have watched him "mismanage" this team of talent on several occasions from the Left Field Pavilion at Dodger Stadium, up close and PERSONAL.

I will state again for the record that the ONLY CHANCE the Dodgers have of winning a World Series here in Los Angeles over the course of the next few years (enter your own amount of years, I don't care. But I am basically referring to the roster of talent they have here and now in my discussion), is to FIRE him and hire someone who actually has electrode activity sparking between the ears. He will not win a World Championship as a manager here in Los Angeles, PERIOD. He doesn't possess the ability to lead, motivate, or make the tough decisions a REAL MANAGER needs to. Any team can have a popular-with-the-players "buddy-buddy" manager with his players. That won't win CHAMPIONSHIPS, however.

And if you guys don't agree with me that the two losses Clayton Kershaw suffered in the post season this year aren't a direct reflection of Mattingly's failure to act, his incompetence as a manager to "handle the urgency and moment", then I certainly won't ever convince you otherwise. We simply see things differently.

I just know that what I saw in the 2014 World Series was two SOLID managers MANAGING the pitching to a TEE. As soon as one pitcher showed ANY sign of lost control, as soon as a pitcher walked ONE batter, there was a trip to the mound, and activity in the bullpen. There was "MANAGING" going on. Great, solid, competent, urgency-filled MANAGING for all to witness. And it was a great World Series that went 7 because of it.

It is my contention those things aren't present with Dandy-Donnie, hovering at the bottom step of the dugout. Just fizzled wires and smoke coming from the collar. And walks of disgust to the mound to remove a pitcher long after he should have, after the damage was done. And the "disgust" I'm referring to is from the Dodger FANS, not Don. He's not conscious enough to understand what just happened.

I'm standing by my prediction, and it's really not hard to do. When a buffoon is driving, a crash is soon to follow. The Dodgers are crashing every year. It's painful for Dodger fans to know before it happens that we're doomed to lose year after year with Don at the helm. Winning the Division because the team is so loaded over the course of 162 games is inevitable. But even THAT is in jeopardy with Don (seeing as it took until the last three games of the year to lock it up). If he steps deeper in it next year and actually loses the Division, then I would expect his immediate firing.

But even if we keep winning our Division, I'm not going to back away from my position. I predict this thread will relive itself year after year, with colorful pictures of Don's pathetic post-game interviews while he tries to explain why the Dodgers lost again. (Remember Donnie's "pout-fest" post season interview while sitting uncomfortably far away with arms crossed from Ned Colletti as they stumbled through Mattingly's unhappiness that he wasn't under contract?) The only chance to fix this if for Dodger brass to acknowledge their HUGE mistake of handing Mattingly an extension after he blew the National League Championship Series in 2013 to the Cardinals , and just FIRE HIM ALREADY. If they hadn't given him that gift after he HANDED away game one, arguably changing the WHOLE atmosphere of the series, we would have been able to sign Joe Maddon. Wow, what could have been. Probably three World Championships over the next 4 years. But now we'll never know.

I'm not sure how you took my comment as if I was questioning and or attacking what you have been saying. I only quoted his one comment, which I agree with in general. Not related to your specific situation. However, sorry if I came across in that way.

[ShaimOnYou]

I'm not sure how you took my comment as if I was questioning and or attacking what you have been saying. I only quoted his one comment, which I agree with in general. Not related to your specific situation. However, sorry if I came across in that way.

Tony,

No apology necessary. I just saw you were agreeing with Smitty's Cox time table, so I included you in the mix. It's all good. I like opinions that differ from mine. It makes the discussion fun. But I would hope fabrication of what I was saying by combining bits and pieces wasn't coming into play.

All I'm saying is, if Don Mattingly is still coaching the Dodgers for the next 10 years, then our "Last World Championship win" will be at 36 years. Ain't gonna happen with this clown!!

[xpress34]

I would hope fabrication of what I was saying by combining bits and pieces wasn't coming into play.

How is 'QUOTING' - verbatim I might add - what you wrote, a fabrication?

I did not change any of your words or statements, but you have IN FACT given ALL of the credit to the TALENT on the team and ALL of the blame to Mattingly.

That is an INDISPUTABLE FACT. Just because all of your statements weren't in the same post on this thread doesn't change the fact that they all came from YOU.

Regardless of your dislike, hatred or whatever term you want to use for Mattingly, the old idiom remains:

You win as a TEAM and you lose as a TEAM. So all of the success and all of the failure can be equally shared by both Mattingly and the Talent.

I know you'll never see it that way - and there's no guarantee that a different Manager is going to get anything different out of this team.

On another note, as a fan of baseball in general - and a collector of memorabilia and autographs, I can tell you that both the Dodgers and the Giants are two of the top teams of Prima Donnas out there.

Your boy Matt Kemp was personally responsible for changing how we can or cannot get autographs at Coors Field by filing a grievance with MLBPA because it bothered him that he was dropped at the gate and had to walk to the clubhouse and possibly be bothered by people asking for autographs, so now the cabs and all drive right past right up to the fenced in backside of the stadium. And it's not the walking that's the issues, it's the fans.

How do I know this? Because this same jackwad walks out after games (ignoring everyone) and walks 15 blocks back to the hotel.

Last time I saw him treat fans nice was at Spring Training when his film crew as there doing a documentary. When the cameras were rolling, he was smiling and hanging out with fans. As soon as they went off - forget about it.

Either, Kershaw, etc.... all the same way. Only nice guys I've met from the Dodgers are Mattingly, McGwire, Lopes and Scott Van Slyke.

Sorry to get off track, but just wanted to share that about your team - part of why I rather enjoyed watching them go down in flames in the playoffs. But I digress.

The point of the last few paragraphs is that there is no 'team chemistry', just a bunch of highly paid athletes who only care about themselves out there just like so many other teams.

[ShaimOnYou]

How is 'QUOTING' - verbatim I might add - what you wrote, a fabrication?

I did not change any of your words or statements, but you have IN FACT given ALL of the credit to the TALENT on the team and ALL of the blame to Mattingly.

That is exactly what I am saying Donnie Baseball HAMSTRINGED the Dodgers with his handling of the pitching staff, in particular the handling of the STARTERS.

That is an INDISPUTABLE FACT. Just because all of your statements weren't in the same post on this thread doesn't change the fact that they all came from YOU.

Regardless of your dislike, hatred or whatever term you want to use for Mattingly, the old idiom remains:

You win as a TEAM and you lose as a TEAM. So all of the success and all of the failure can be equally shared by both Mattingly and the Talent.

TOTALLY disagree. The Dodgers were WINNING or TIED in EVERY game in that series. It was MATTINGLY'S ACTIONS that caused the outcome.

I know you'll never see it that way - and there's no guarantee that a different Manager is going to get anything different out of this team.

A different manager will ABSOLUTELY get something different out of this team: WINS in the POST SEASON. Because they won't HAMSTRING the team with ridiculous PITCHING SNAFU'S like Mattingly does on a regular BASIS, It's IMPOSSIBLE to be more INEPT at it than DONNIE is.

On another note, as a fan of baseball in general - and a collector of memorabilia and autographs, I can tell you that both the Dodgers and the Giants are two of the top teams of Prima Donnas out there.

You can pretty much say that about any professional sports team or athlete these days. There are always exceptions. Probably best to leave this to another discussion.

Your boy Matt Kemp was personally responsible for changing how we can or cannot get autographs at Coors Field by filing a grievance with MLBPA because it bothered him that he was dropped at the gate and had to walk to the clubhouse and possibly be bothered by people asking for autographs, so now the cabs and all drive right past right up to the fenced in backside of the stadium. And it's not the walking that's the issues, it's the fans.

How do I know this? Because this same jackwad walks out after games (ignoring everyone) and walks 15 blocks back to the hotel.

Last time I saw him treat fans nice was at Spring Training when his film crew as there doing a documentary. When the cameras were rolling, he was smiling and hanging out with fans. As soon as they went off - forget about it.

Either, Kershaw, etc.... all the same way. Only nice guys I've met from the Dodgers are Mattingly, McGwire, Lopes and Scott Van Slyke.

Scott Van Slyke IS one hell of a guy, isn't he? And Davey Lopes has always been one of my favorites. Mark McGwire? Where would he be if at this point in history he WASN'T nice to fans? Think about that one...

Sorry to get off track, but just wanted to share that about your team - part of why I rather enjoyed watching them go down in flames in the playoffs. But I digress.

Understood. I like to see the guys/teams I don't like (for numerous reasons) crash and burn too.

The point of the last few paragraphs is that there is no 'team chemistry', just a bunch of highly paid athletes who only care about themselves out there just like so many other teams.

Chris

[ShaimOnYou]

Smitty,

I read through both our comments again, and I'll highlight the major points (as I see it) again. I am in NO way having it both ways. I thought I stated it very clearly, but here it is in simple terms.

Don Mattingly's enormous mishandling of the team substitutions and pitching staff CANNOT be hidden in a best-of-5 or best-of-7 play-off atmosphere.

Over 162 games, SURE! The Dodger talent is good enough to overcome "Donnie Baseball" ineptness and still win their division.

But in the play-offs? We're doomed. That's it. Dodger brass will just have to learn what all us Dodger fans already KNOW over the course of one or two more LOST seasons, and that's a shame.

I'll add this, Smitty. Don Mattingly may very well be one of the nicest guys in baseball. In life in general. But does that mean he should be President of the United States?

He shouldn't be the manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers either. He should be tending to his farm in Indiana. It's hard to mishandle corn stalks.

[ShaimOnYou]

OK, so Clayton Kershaw dominates this season, wins his third Cy Young in 4 years, then takes home the NL MVP hardware, the first pitcher to do so since Bob Gibson in '68. A mere 46 years in the making for that feat to be accomplished.

But he can't win a lowly play-off game against the Cardinals after leading both games into the seventh? REALLY?

He went 21-3 this year. And the Dodgers get a clump of coal in a burlap sack for Christmas when he appears in the "money games"?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............................



WAKE UP DODGER BRASS........FIGURE IT OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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