thoughts on upcomming jeter jersey in GFC's auction.

[kingjammy24]

i dont think we can let this thread die, someone might throw away alot of money if it is not real.

here's the thing; GFC has posted pics that pretty clearly show the bottom of the tag is resewn. GFC is aware that it's resewn. reminds me of this comment dave bushing recently made:

"A couple of weeks ago, a client was interested in buying a 1920's Hall of Fame calibre jersey for upwards of six figures. When I looked at it for him, it took but a few seconds to tell him it was a complete and deliberate fake. Likewise, last summer a Mickey Cochrane jersey for $75,000 that was also a deliberate fake. The client did not know old jerseys and would have shelled out upwards of a couple hundred thousand dollars."

people have more money than sense. they buy things they don't understand. robert recently made the comment that buyers are becoming savvier and i suppose i'd agree that the baseline knowledge of collectors in general has increased due to this forum. that said, it seems there are still a good number of people out there spending thousands on items that they have no idea about and beyond that, apparently don't even realize the problem of buying things you don't understand. either buyers aren't looking or they don't care and i don't understand the logic behind the latter. you can't do much more for people like that.

GFC realizes it's resewn and said it doesn't have any idea why. so then why keep it in the auction? i don't understand their cavalier attitude about such a red flag.

flaco: the strip tag is sewn underneath the mfr tag so if you were to replace the strip tag, say for example to turn a common player or a spare jersey into a superstar, or even just to add a strip tag where there previously was none, you'd either remove the mfr tag entirely and resew the whole package (mfr tag + strip tag + poly tag) or if you were lazy you'd just pop open the bottom of the mfr tag, remove anything you don't like, add what you want, and resew it. russell mfr tags were typically sewn pretty neatly. it's a pretty big red flag and when you toss in the armband placement and the lack of tagging wash wear, it seems very hard to have any good feelings about the shirt.

rudy.

[JETEFAN]

Rudy and Joel,

How does this look......

[suicide_squeeze]

the bigger question is why GFC feels comfortable with it. they have no explanation for this anomaly yet they're comfortable with it and will run it anyway? nice. they don't know why it'd be resewn and apparently they don't care. as long as the shirt fetches a good price. and then richie whines and bitches about the forum. richie, if you wouldn't run jerseys with resewn tags then maybe people wouldn't complain and you wouldn't feel attacked. richie strikes me as the sort of guy who shoots himself in the foot and then complains that it hurts.

i've seen many russell shirts from this era and if it were me, i wouldn't touch any russell gamer with a resewn mfr tag. the fact that this is a superstar rookie gamer and the fact that the armband is sewn lower than can be seen in many other 1996 yankees photos makes the whole thing even worse.

rudy.

Your "letter" is on the way.....

Oh, and keep an ear out for the knock on that front door.

[kingjammy24]

Rudy and Joel,

How does this look......

hey what do you know, a '96 jeter with a proper-era tag and clean stitching on all 4 sides. who would've thought.

clinton2828, i'm curious what sort of explanations do you think might be plausible for the re-stitched tag?

rudy.

[trsent]

hey what do you know, a '96 jeter with a proper-era tag and clean stitching on all 4 sides. who would've thought.

clinton2828, i'm curious what sort of explanations do you think might be plausible for the re-stitched tag?

rudy.

here's the thing; GFC has posted pics that pretty clearly show the bottom of the tag is resewn. GFC is aware that it's resewn.

Did Grey Flannel respond to anyone about your concerns with this jersey?

You stated that they know the tag is re-sewn. I was wondering if you received an email from them or called them to discuss since I have not discussed the jersey in question with them so I was wondering how you determined that they know of your concerns?

Then again, maybe they decided that your findings are not enough to pull the item based on where the item originated. I don't know the answers , but I can speculate as good as anyone else.

[kingjammy24]

"Did Grey Flannel respond to anyone about your concerns with this jersey?

You stated that they know the tag is re-sewn. I was wondering if you received an email from them or called them to discuss since I have not discussed the jersey in question with them so I was wondering how you determined that they know of your concerns?"

when i called gfc they had no explination for the double stitching, they jsut said, if you dont feel comfortable dont bid.

rudy.

[clinton2828]

rudy,

as for the explination for the tag being resewn i could not be sure myself, but who knows? maybe the person sewing it did it by accident, heck they are sewing hundreds or jerseys or the thread could have got caught on the machine , who knows?

the point i was trying to make, is that our point about the placement of the arm bad is the stronger argument becuase we can produce photo evidence that can confirm or contradict the placement. thus making it real or fake. as for now the evidence has shown it is misplaced.

and as i stated i hope photos suface that it is place corrected and the stripes match up because i would want to bid.

but as for now there are too many questions about the jersey.


also what i dont understand is that these auction houses dont push hard to find photo matche or style match. they should have a person dedicated to it or even offer lower consignment fees to items that have team letters or photo matches because it really increases the final bid prices.

heck look at the prices tomlinson jerseys from nfl auction fetch usually like 6k while ones in there auction houes only get abut 2k. now think how much money auction houses could make for themselves and clients if they were able to photo match items.


with the nfl with only 16 games it is not that hard to photo match items.

i think these auction houses revenue whould be cut in at least in half if this was the case.

[suicide_squeeze]

Rudy, no one doubted your finds about the Jeter jersey. I was just expanding the discussion. You made points and when we showed one of them to have alternatives, you rub it in my face that the point is the weakest of the points you made so I should start a new thread? What?

You made points, and the one you find weakest we showed is not a fully valid reason. The other points are valid issues and good for you keeping them close to the topic but do not discredit me for bringing valid information to the discussion because you find it discredits the weakest of your reasoning for questioning this item.

Also, sorry - I have friends who will not post on this forum as they do not appreciate the way people are abused. You can get over it or you can let me post.

Notice often I quote people who email me. Sometimes I attribute it and sometimes I don't. Some people just don't want the headaches I deal with because of the abuse I receive for making comments to a discussion and I can see why they email me instead of posting.

Joel,

Ya think?

Didn't you know everybody here is a genius....an expert. You and your friends can't possibly add anything to the mix.

And GOD forbid you ever try to stand up for yourself.....then the personal attacks start to fly.

But it's O.K., some of us have thicker skin, so we can handle it.

Speak your mind.....any and every argument may bring light to something worth discussing.

It says a lot about the individuals here who, as knowledgeable and helpful as they are with their expertise and visual examples of their points, find it necessary to publicly insult people they don't even know for asking a question that appears legit.

Steve

[suicide_squeeze]

i dont think we can let this thread die, someone might throw away alot of money if it is not real. i think the double stitching on the tag is questionable but maybe explainable, i think the better argument is the placement of the black arm bad. that one is a SLAM DUNK, if no photo evidence is produce to counter the several pics alrady posted!

hell i hope we find pics that prove us wrong i would bid to win but i wont spend that type of $$ will all these quesitons.

slinton2828,

You won't.

Rudy's example's are rock solid. They is no resonable explanation for any of them.

My personal taste in game used items is that of wanting pieces that have not been altered. That would eliminate any need for searching out reasonable explanations for what has been discussed on this jersey.

What you end up doing is trying to explain away the problems.....all because you desire to own a piece from a player you adore.

There will be other pieces with iron-clad provenance (like picture matches, no questionable issues, etc.).......pass and wait for something else. And if your argument is "Yeah, but I'd have to pay through the nose for a piece like that".....then you are falling into the hobby trap.

You get what you pay for. If you can't afford something you want, is there any sense to be made of buying something "questionable" just so you can fill that need?

We all have to live without in some regard. Save. Wait. Your day will come.

"Caveat emptor".

[suicide_squeeze]

rudy,

as for the explination for the tag being resewn i could not be sure myself, but who knows? maybe the person sewing it did it by accident, heck they are sewing hundreds or jerseys or the thread could have got caught on the machine , who knows?

the point i was trying to make, is that our point about the placement of the arm bad is the stronger argument becuase we can produce photo evidence that can confirm or contradict the placement. thus making it real or fake. as for now the evidence has shown it is misplaced.

and as i stated i hope photos suface that it is place corrected and the stripes match up because i would want to bid.

but as for now there are too many questions about the jersey.


also what i dont understand is that these auction houses dont push hard to find photo matche or style match. they should have a person dedicated to it or even offer lower consignment fees to items that have team letters or photo matches because it really increases the final bid prices.

heck look at the prices tomlinson jerseys from nfl auction fetch usually like 6k while ones in there auction houes only get abut 2k. now think how much money auction houses could make for themselves and clients if they were able to photo match items.


with the nfl with only 16 games it is not that hard to photo match items.

i think these auction houses revenue whould be cut in at least in half if this was the case.

clinton2828,

First off, sorry I made a typo on your name in the previous post

I made mention on this very subject in a recent post....

If auction houses followed your recommendation, they would have one employee, in shipping, and have maybe 6 items to auction in their 3-4 auctions a year. It's a lot easier to list what they have consigned, and let the buyers figure it out, and go crazy bidding.

Your point is solid as the few times the items they DO sell, with photo match pictures to support them, go for big bucks, and rightfully so. The questionability of authenticity has been eliminated in these cases. It can't get any better than that.

Trust that any time that fact is available to them (a photo matched item), they will absolutely add it to the auction.