Amateurish Photo Matching

[bronx_burner]

What Mears seems to say is that they checked 9 sources for photos to match the jersey and found none. The photos they found, showed styles that elimated years from 1975-1978. By eliminating these years and taking into account the tags, they deduced it was a 1974 jersey.

Seems pretty clears to me.

Yes but a photo was found (not by Mears) of the 1974 warmup jersey and it didn't match. See this thread:
www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=38999

[joelsabi]

Do you think figuring out the date of a tag is the same as authenticating a jersey?

What year is this jersey from and who wore it? You can use 1000 words or 1 photo.

Clue - the tag is from the jersey at left and the SIXERS lettering on that jersey was used for only the 1977-78 season.

Otismalibu,

No, tags are just one element. Tags can be replaced/added/removed. I don't know what type of stitches are used to sew on the tag and I don't have access to dozens of jerseys to compare it to.

In some cases, I imagine, there are tags that would be used for only one year that could be helpful to authenticate an item for a particular year. For example. there are Yankee hats with the same logo since back in the days with tags used only for a specific year. The photo of the player wearing the hat gives no clue as to what year but the tag does.

Of course, if there is a photo use it. In this case there is no photo so they did the next best thing to explain their findings.

Yes but a photo was found (not by Mears) of the 1974 warmup jersey and it didn't match. See this thread:
www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=38999

I cannot open the link. If a photo was found and didn't match, MEARS cannot deduce that it came from that year.

[bronx_burner]

Not sure whats wrong with the link feature in the forum then. See if this works. Otherwise, its a simple copy and paste into the address bar of the link text I posted before.

showthread.php?t=38999

[trsent]

But i might add that Kinunen statement is condescending and a joke as are MANY of his loa's

I'll repost my post from another discussion thread discussing Troy's comments. You can take cheap shots at him all you want, but as he told me on the phone, he talked to the guy for 45 minutes and that quote was half a sentence. I'm pretty sure posts like the one you made above will not be swayed by Troy's response to the discussion(s) as if you don't appreciate the time and work MEARS spends authenticating items then you'll never appreciate anything positive about them, but for those who wish to read a reply right from the founder of MEARS, here you go:

---------------------------------------------------

As I assumed earlier, Troy was taken out of context.

Troy Kinunen of MEARS just emailed me the following:

From my notes on the interview,

“MEARS does not photo match, we use the process of imagery analysis. This includes using the process of mensuration, a concept introduced by retired LTC Dave Grob. With photo matching, you must have an understanding of tagging, sizing, style, lettering, numbering, wear, source/provenance, and imagery analysis. To just take a jersey and match it against a photo is an amateurish way of authenticating. Because without studying the rest of the facts, fraud can be introduced.

There are many collectors out there that truly study their hobby and educate themselves, and do not need the use of authenticators. Actually, if you look back at the 600+ published articles, MEARS has been an industry leader of educating collectors on how to make informed purchase decisions.

MEARS does not just take an item and state is authentic, we try to show you the process of how we came to our conclusion.”

[otismalibu]

With photo matching, you must have an understanding of tagging, sizing, style, lettering, numbering, wear, source/provenance, and imagery analysis.

Honestly, with a true photo match, I'm not concerned with the tagging, style or where it came from (assuming it's not stolen).

To just take a jersey and match it against a photo is an amateurish way of authenticating. Because without studying the rest of the facts, fraud can be introduced.

I would argue that anyone (eBayer, auction house) who is trying to sell an item and has not first found, at the very least, a style match, needs to keep researching.

[trsent]

Honestly, with a true photo match, I'm not concerned with the tagging, style or where it came from (assuming it's not stolen).



I would argue that anyone (eBayer, auction house) who is trying to sell an item and has not first found, at the very least, a style match, needs to keep researching.

You are correct and we all know you are a memorabilia god. No one doubts that Greg. The problem is too many people take an item with a letter and don't photo-match it. Why should they? They have a letter!

Now anyone who reads this forum knows a letter is often not worth the paper it is printed on, even though some letters are useful and helpful.

In fact, MEARS often gives Getty Image numbers with their letters to show style matches for an item.

Just clever how you quoted a couple of lines from Troy's response like the reported did. Very clever.

[otismalibu]

In fact, MEARS often gives Getty Image numbers with their letters to show style matches for an item.

That's good. Everyone should do that. They see value in style matching. So do I.

[trsent]

That's good. Everyone should do that. They see value in style matching. So do I.

No one disagrees with that.

[joelsabi]

[I][B]

I know the vast majority of you will cringe when you read this next part, but I emailed Mr. Kohler and pointed out that this was actually Erving’s 1983 AS game MVP jersey. How did I know this? I photo matched the jersey. Yeah, I thought about keeping that nugget of info to myself. So the item was pulled and put in the December monthly auction, with a min. bid of $7500. It sold for over $73,000.


As a side not to this story. Mr. Kohler sent me an email, said thanks and told me it would be the feature item of the next auction. I replied to both Mr. Kohler and Mr. Erving and suggested that a few autographs for some of my items would be a nice thank you, seeing I probably just put $15-30K back in their pockets. This was a conservative guess, because the 2nd auction had not yet run. Looking back now, I would say the difference was more like $50-60K. I never got a reply from either gentleman.

Greg,

After seeing their inaction, please promise me you will keep that type of nugget to yourself next time or at least share it with another Dr. J collector who might not otherwise afford "the steal" or with someone like your buddy Joel A. who can front the money and split the profits with you when you both flip it.

This is just another of many examples where a players cannot identify his own jersey correctly.

I have always been impressed with your passion for the player you collect, Julius Erving. You photo library of Dr. J is second to none and made watching the auction of Dr. J's personal collection very interesting.

Regards,

Joel

[trsent]

Greg,

After seeing their inaction, please promise me you will keep that type of nugget to yourself next time or at least share it with another Dr. J collector who might not otherwise afford "the steal" or with someone like your buddy Joel A. who can front the money and split the profits with you when you both flip it.

My wallet is always open to partner in a deal with Greg!