Roger Maris and Hank Aaron HR champs?

[Roady]

As for his amazing season in 1961-those amazing seasons happen here and there throughout our baseball history. Ted Williams was juicing when he suddenly hit .406 in 1941? Check out his BA in 1940 and 1942.
.344 in 1940
.356 in 1942
Must have been juicing in 1941 because his average jumped 60 points.
We could point out hundreds of these seasons by different players throughout baseball's long history.
Really, the facts are that steroids were never in baseball until our man Canseco introduced them into the sport in the mid 1980s.
Let's give Maris his due.

You are comparing who many consider the greatest hitter and owner of a lifetime .344 BA to a guy who had one great season in an otherwse mediocre career?
Really?

Okay, if that's your take. I said I had zero proof and I don't that Maris and Mantle was on steroids. But maybe you should read some of Mantles own words as to why he was in the hospital. Maybe it was all a coincidence that Mantle and Maris were talking about challenging the HR record before the 61 season even started.

And steroids have been around much longer than 1982 folks. Come on that is easy to dispute. The internet is full of info on it. Now if your position is that steroids have only been used in baseball since 1982 or some other year then I would love to see the proof on that. You cannot prove that any more than I can prove Mantle and Maris were using in 61. So lets not get too carried away with stating specifics that we cannot back up.

I knew I would catch a lot of heat for this and that is okay.

Ken, the Jew reference was not worth commenting on. Sorry if that hurts your feelings but a swing and a miss on your end buddy. It wasn't funny or relevant. It was kind of creepy.

[Roady]

Okay Ken, just kidding about the creepy part.

[teddy406]

Roady. I'm glad you don't believe that the M&M boys were on Roids. That was just really out of left field. Maris was not a one year wonder, but he was hurt most of his career. He was MVP in 1960 with 39 HRs and 100+rbis. He hit 61 in 61. Then the next year hit 33 and had 100 rbis in 1962. All his other years he missed significant time with the Yankees. After he hurt his wrist in 1965, he was never the same. Lost all his power. Without all the injuries before the Yanks, during the Yanks, and with the Cards, I think he would be a definite HOF. But we'll never know. It was also a perfect fit for Maris in Yankee Stadium. Short porch in RF and he was a great pull hitter. And what was huge too, was MANTLE batting behind him. He always got pitched to.
I think Roids were around in the 60's but mostly in the Soviet Union, and in a few sports such as the Olympics and Football. It took awhile before they found there way into baseball.

[KGoldin]

You are comparing who many consider the greatest hitter and owner of a lifetime .344 BA to a guy who had one great season in an otherwse mediocre career?
Really?

Okay, if that's your take. I said I had zero proof and I don't that Maris and Mantle was on steroids. But maybe you should read some of Mantles own words as to why he was in the hospital. Maybe it was all a coincidence that Mantle and Maris were talking about challenging the HR record before the 61 season even started.

And steroids have been around much longer than 1982 folks. Come on that is easy to dispute. The internet is full of info on it. Now if your position is that steroids have only been used in baseball since 1982 or some other year then I would love to see the proof on that. You cannot prove that any more than I can prove Mantle and Maris were using in 61. So lets not get too carried away with stating specifics that we cannot back up.

I knew I would catch a lot of heat for this and that is okay.

Ken, the Jew reference was not worth commenting on. Sorry if that hurts your feelings but a swing and a miss on your end buddy. It wasn't funny or relevant. It was kind of creepy.

I'm jewish
I wasn't using it derogatory way, I was saying it like they said it in the 1930s, " didn't want a Jew to break Ruth's record"

[Roady]

I'm jewish
I wasn't using it derogatory way, I was saying it like they said it in the 1930s, " didn't want a Jew to break Ruth's record"

Oh okay. I have read some about Greenberg and while I have read that he was shown some racism I didn't know it went that far.

[Roady]

Roady. I'm glad you don't believe that the M&M boys were on Roids. That was just really out of left field. Maris was not a one year wonder, but he was hurt most of his career. He was MVP in 1960 with 39 HRs and 100+rbis. He hit 61 in 61. Then the next year hit 33 and had 100 rbis in 1962. All his other years he missed significant time with the Yankees. After he hurt his wrist in 1965, he was never the same. Lost all his power. Without all the injuries before the Yanks, during the Yanks, and with the Cards, I think he would be a definite HOF. But we'll never know. It was also a perfect fit for Maris in Yankee Stadium. Short porch in RF and he was a great pull hitter. And what was huge too, was MANTLE batting behind him. He always got pitched to.
I think Roids were around in the 60's but mostly in the Soviet Union, and in a few sports such as the Olympics and Football. It took awhile before they found there way into baseball.

But I do think the M&M boys were on roids, at least in 1961. I just said that I have zero proof, just anecdotal evidence at best. I could never prove it in court.

[Roady]

Oh, and anabolic steroids were first developed in the 1950's.

[teddy406]

Greenberg faced a lot of racism. M & M didn't even know what Roids were, my man. Maris was smoking 3 packs a day all during his NY years. But, people can believe whatever they want Roady. Was Pete Rose framed too? Ha. Talk to ya later.

[Roady]

Greenberg faced a lot of racism. M & M didn't even know what Roids were, my man. Maris was smoking 3 packs a day all during his NY years. But, people can believe whatever they want Roady. Was Pete Rose framed too? Ha. Talk to ya later.

I try not to talk in absolutes such as M&M didn't even know what roids were. That would require me to know their thoughts and that is impossible to know.
Read up on Mantle's doctor who injected him in 61. I believe they were both experimenting that year with roids, I could be wrong. Probably doesn't matter in the end.
Pete Rose had an addiction to gambling. I have no idea if he bet against his own team as some say he must have. I know betting of any kind is against the rules of baseball and there is a sign in every locker room reminding players of that fact.
Rose had an ego that made him one of the best there ever was on the diamond. Unfortunately that ego like many others was also self destructive.
I truly hope Rose gets into the HOF before he dies or I die. I think he has paid his dues. I would also like to see Shoeless Joe Jackson get in.

[cjclong]

Regarding the charge, with no evidence, that Mantle and Maris were steroid users in 1961. There have been numerous incidents over the years where players in all sports had a career year that they never equaled again. Nothing unusual about that. In 1961 not only was the season increased to 162 games from 154 but the American League added two new teams, the LA Angeles and the Washington Senators. All the existing AL teams had to put up players on their teams that were subject to draft by the new teams. This diluted the pitching as their were a number of pitchers that year in the AL that would have been in the minors otherwise. So the pitching was not as good that year and over a longer season. A number of players like Norm Cash and Jim Gentile and John Blanchard had career years that they did not repeat again, not just Maris. Maris was playing against inferior pitching over a longer season and, because he was batting ahead of Mantle, he was getting good pitches to hit. No one was going to walk Maris to pitch to Mantle and Maris did not receive a single intentional walk all year. Also, Maris was a dead pull hitter in the old Yankee stadium where the right field line with a low wall started at about 296 feet and only about 340 in right center, a huge aid to a hitter like Maris. You can call Maris record at the time a fluke, but you can't say he didn't earn it honestly (well I guess you can because you did). As for Mantle, he had hit over 50 home runs in 1956 in a shorter season. Was he using steroids in 56 too?
Roady, in your first post you said you "think" Mantle and Maris used steroids. How would you like it if someone accused you of something negative with no real proof, just speculation, because they "think" you did something wrong. At least in the court system we have to prove something, not just speculate with no hard evidence, but I guess that doesn't apply to a sports blog.