Don Mattingly's disgrace

[onlyalbert]

Again I say the Cards have his and the Dodgers number! Did you not watch the 2011 WS? Again I say the Dodgers might pay Kershaw, but the Cards OWN him! They brought in the reliever and we spanked him too. Will do it again next year........

[ShaimOnYou]

Again I say the Cards have his and the Dodgers number! Did you not watch the 2011 WS? Again I say the Dodgers might pay Kershaw, but the Cards OWN him! They brought in the reliever and we spanked him too. Will do it again next year........

onlyalbert,

I watched the entire 2011 World Series. It was one of the best W.S. ever.

I don't remember seeing Kershaw in the 2011 World Series, however. As far as 2014 goes, Kershaw had pinned down your Red Bird's wings with a 2-hitter going into the 7th, leading 6-2. I'd say that was a spanking all by itself. When the WHOLE WORLD (save Dandie-Don) saw Clayton had finally run out gas, the Dodger buffoon manager left him on the vine to die. No mound visit after three straight singles, and no one up in the pen. All game, 105 degree heat. The decision to leave him in until he was pummeled, relentlessly, to the point of losing the lead (on the way to an 8-run 7th), was nothing short of confirmation that this idiot running the troops was deaf, dumb, and blind. Confirmation that his stupidity from the 2013 play-offs was, indeed, all Don was capable of!! As it was, your birds barely hung on to win 10-9, even after that buffoon-for-ages mishandling of our pitching staff. It fries my soul Mattingly wasn't fired following that GAME, let alone the SERIES.

So the Cardinals own Clayton Kershaw, really? A strong manager takes that game for the Dodgers. Hell, I could have managed the Dodgers to a WIN that game. The Cardinals are a sound organization, one of baseball's pride and joy elite franchises, but the Dodgers should have handed them an exit this year. You know it, and I know it, your fanhood aside. You guys got lucky that we have a complete GOOF for a manager.

And I agree with you 100%. With Mattingly driving the ship, you guys will no doubt do it again next year.

[Roady]

Pretty sad when the best pitcher in MLB, as many believe, can't go past 7 innings in the heat in the playoffs.

Warren Spahn says to tell Kershaw to man up.

[slab0meat]

I've done a 180 and now really love that this thread stays alive and can be used as evidence one day.

[Mark17]

Pretty sad when the best pitcher in MLB, as many believe, can't go past 7 innings in the heat in the playoffs.

Warren Spahn says to tell Kershaw to man up.

Right. Mattingly probably thought his best pitcher was man enough to do his job.

I remember 1991, Game 7, Jack Morris taking the mound in the tenth inning. If the manager had tried to take him out of the game, there would've been a physical altercation. And Morris wasn't protecting a huge 6-2 lead either, he was pitching his guts out in a 0-0 tie.

Then there's the famous story of Bob Gibson getting in a little trouble and his catcher, Tim McCarver, starting to go out to talk to him. "Get back there where you belong, the only thing you know about pitching is that it's hard to hit!" Gibson shouted.

Guys like Morris and Gibson loved the pressure. They did their jobs and thrived in tough spots. Instead of blaming Mattingly for Kershaw's failings, maybe Mattingly was just mistaken thinking he had a thoroughbred on the mound who could get his act together.

But apparently, after giving up three straight hits, Kershaw needed a hug that Donnie didn't provide. That might make Donnie a poor parental figure in the dugout, for his more insecure players, but going with your ace, holding a 4 run lead, doesn't sound so dumb to me.

[onlyalbert]

Ohhhhhh boy here we go! Hahaha

[BaseballNutz]

Right. Mattingly probably thought his best pitcher was man enough to do his job.

I remember 1991, Game 7, Jack Morris taking the mound in the tenth inning. If the manager had tried to take him out of the game, there would've been a physical altercation. And Morris wasn't protecting a huge 6-2 lead either, he was pitching his guts out in a 0-0 tie.

Then there's the famous story of Bob Gibson getting in a little trouble and his catcher, Tim McCarver, starting to go out to talk to him. "Get back there where you belong, the only thing you know about pitching is that it's hard to hit!" Gibson shouted.

Guys like Morris and Gibson loved the pressure. They did their jobs and thrived in tough spots. Instead of blaming Mattingly for Kershaw's failings, maybe Mattingly was just mistaken thinking he had a thoroughbred on the mound who could get his act together.

But apparently, after giving up three straight hits, Kershaw needed a hug that Donnie didn't provide. That might make Donnie a poor parental figure in the dugout, for his more insecure players, but going with your ace, holding a 4 run lead, doesn't sound so dumb to me.

Never heard that Gibson story before, and I'm still laughing.

I highlighted two comments you made above and would like to share my thoughts as an outside disinterested 3rd party. I'm not taking sides here (although being a Giants fan I will admit I enjoyed it ), but I can sympathize with the frustration of the original poster, and Dodger fans in general.

Kershaw in the end did fail for sure. But Mattingly is the manager. And if he can't figure our when his ace needs to be relieved, then who?

Anyone can criticize Kershaw for losing, tell him he's not a clutch player, even personally insult him if they so desire, but at the end of the game it's the team that suffers the loss. Is it Kershaw's fault they lost because he's not Bob Gibson or Jack Morris? Mattingly wasn't managing Bob Gibson or Jack Morris. And Mattingly failed to act on a situation that was out of control.

I think anyone would agree that going with your ace with a 4 run lead is the safe way to play it. But to watch him give up multiple hits until the lead was relinquished? Again, is that Kershaw's fault? Or the manager's, the guy in charge?

I would also add that starting off a play-off series that way is extremely damaging to the team. It's hard to get up off the mat after taking a punch like that. Apparently the Dodgers owners don't feel it was their managers fault. He's still there. 2015 should shed some answers.

Dave

[Mark17]

Kershaw in the end did fail for sure. But Mattingly is the manager. And if he can't figure our when his ace needs to be relieved, then who?

If Kershaw composes himself and gets the next couple of batters out, he gets credit for being a tough, gritty competitor, and Mattingly gets credit for staying calm and showing faith in his ace.

If Kershaw fails, as he did, then Mattingly is blamed for, basically, not being able to see into the future.

Here in Minnesota, Tom Kelly, who won the Series in both 1987 and 1991, is considered the best manager we've ever had, largely because he had a calming influence on his teams. When asked why he stuck with Jack Morris through 10 innings of Game 7 of the 1991 World Series, he shrugged his shoulders and said, "Why not, it's only a game."

I'll take the manager who stays calm and has confidence in his superstar players to be the leaders they are being paid to be, over the managers who panic and think it's their job to personally win games by putting reliever after reliever into the game like chess pieces.

Gene Mauch, one of my least favorite managers of all time, was the latter. He considered it HIS job to win games, and over-managed his way through a very long, pennantless career. When you have good players, sit back and let THEM win the game for you.

Again, if I've got a 4 run lead and my ace on the hill, I let him take care of business (unless of course he gets injured or the pitching coach tells me he detects something wrong with his motion.)

[BaseballNutz]

Mark17,

Let me see if I understand where you're coming from.

-The key to winning is never relieve your ace.

-A manager with no foresight will still win world championships as long as he stays calm.

-Those 3-time Cy Young no-stamina MVP ace slackers who rattle easily need not worry when they fail because their calm manager can always reach into their bucket and pull out the plentiful Magic Puckett Ride-a-Long Shoulder to win (those things are simply amazing!)

Finally, when playing chess, don't use any of your pieces. Just let the king win for you on his own. And if he fails, bah, it was just a game.

How'd I do?

[Mark17]

Mark17,

Let me see if I understand where you're coming from.

How'd I do?

Nutz, You did pretty well. A direct hit would've been something like:

"Mark, you're amusing yourself by keeping the discussion going, playing devil's advocate, just to see if you can get a reaction out of Shaim or someone else..."