PED's Baseball and Lance Armstrong

[schubert1970]

Yes, it was funny as i had mentioned looking at players stats covering late 30s and early 40s. And last time I looked, that would include ages 36, 37, etc. And my stats include many very good years above those ages as well.
Nice job not including Spahn in your little paradigm...bravo!

Spahn isn't a position player, just a tad different.

[gorilla777]

Spahn isn't a position player, just a tad different.

Yes, well just following your lead-in of using Clemens and Bonds as your only guys you could think of in that category. Clemens is a pitcher, Spahn is a pitcher. There is your connection.

[schubert1970]

Yes, well just following your lead-in of using Clemens and Bonds as your only guys you could think of in that category. Clemens is a pitcher, Spahn is a pitcher. There is your connection.

Wow, one pitcher from a different era to make your case... Why not show Cy Young????

Lol. Please stop it I can't take it anymore.

[gorilla777]

Good grief pal, you're too much. Come out with a tabloid rag type claim on Jeter and provide zero facts to back it up. Oh, other than some silly pictures...well played.

[schubert1970]

Good grief pal, you're too much. Come out with a tabloid rag type claim on Jeter and provide zero facts to back it up. Oh, other than some silly pictures...well played.

Thanks grape ape! You made my work day fly! I was just having fun. Some of you folks on here take all this too serious.

[gorilla777]

Don't take things so seriously and just relax. It should have been apparent I've been busting your chops a bit with this here.

And rather than continuing at all on this thread, you can reach me at bent_714 at yahoo dot com.....I'm betting others prefer that as well!

[MSpecht]

I took a little time and edited this thread to clean up some spirited discussion (which for the most part is interesting) that had degenerated into some personal attack-type of commentary. Please stick to facts, conclusions, and opinions that are deviod of personal ridicule or name-calling. I still think this thread gas some way to go under the above guidelines.

Thanks....Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

PS- here are two of my opinions just for the record:

1. No player in history has shown the dominance when compared to other players not only of the same age but throughout their career as Roger Clemens did his last 2 or 3 seasons. He was either the most naturally freakish old-timer in the history of sports (and civilization) or he was involved deeply with PEDs

2. There is a difference between Manslaughter and Murder One. The difference is called 'with malace aforethought,' and the penalties (7 years vs death penalty, respectively) reflect that. That being said, Melky Cabrera, based on the whole website fiasco and his admission, should receive a lifetime ban from baseball.


Back to the oriiginal intent of this post, stay away from personal attacks or personal characterizations in order to keep this interesting thread open. Thanks.

[trsent]

Lance Armstrong claims he was tested over 500 times.

I have been told by both scouts and players PED's help improve your eye sight as well.

A large % of players are still using, there is just to much money in the game. Just because there is testing the system is flawed, cyclist, football players, boxers, olympians are still using.

Yes, Lance Armstrong never failed a test, but ten people are willing to testify against him and they strip him of all his titles because he is tired of the "witch hunt".

You know what I say? I say they are out of line with their attacks of Lance. He was tested, he passed. Catch him and we'll talk, right?

Really?

Comparing an 18-19 year old kid fresh out of high school to a 34 year old professional athlete with almost 2 decades worth of elite training, nutrition and conditioning is hardly a fair or accurate comparison of anything

Bravo. I don't doubt that Barry Bonds and Jeff Bagwell may have had some PED's to grow, your point is 100% on the money. Can't a guy bulk up with hard work and a good diet?

I took a little time and edited this thread to clean up some spirited discussion (which for the most part is interesting) that had degenerated into some personal attack-type of commentary. Please stick to facts, conclusions, and opinions that are deviod of personal ridicule or name-calling. I still think this thread gas some way to go under the above guidelines.

Thanks....Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

PS- here are two of my opinions just for the record:

1. No player in history has shown the dominance when compared to other players not only of the same age but throughout their career as Roger Clemens did his last 2 or 3 seasons. He was either the most naturally freakish old-timer in the history of sports (and civilization) or he was involved deeply with PEDs

2. There is a difference between Manslaughter and Murder One. The difference is called 'with malace aforethought,' and the penalties (7 years vs death penalty, respectively) reflect that. That being said, Melky Cabrera, based on the whole website fiasco and his admission, should receive a lifetime ban from baseball.


Back to the oriiginal intent of this post, stay away from personal attacks or personal characterizations in order to keep this interesting thread open. Thanks.

Now to my view on PED's in society. I always say it, when Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco were becoming superstars everyone knew they were using steroids. No one doubted this. Television announcers mentioned it during games. People discussed it and no one though it was wrong.

Now we go a punish these guys years later because they later became outlawed? Get over it I say, it is part of the history of the game.

I personally don't mind if professional athletes want to take PED's to get bigger and stronger. I think they should be legalized and regulated. Then everyone has the choice if they want to take drugs to risk their lives so they can play a sport and make money.

I was tweeting with Victor Conte recently and he said that they made a deal with a drug dealer to help nail professional athletes. What's wrong with society? You let off a drug dealer who tattles on selling to athletes? Dang, a pusher is a criminal. A drug abuser needs professional help.

[tacprc]

Fyi, earlier today I read an article in the August 1980 issue of Baseball Magazine titled Baseball's Ageless Superstars that focused on Stargell, McCovey, Willie Horton, Rose, Yastrzemski, Phil Niekro, Tommy John, and Luis Tiant -- so there have always been a few players who remained productive into their late 30's and early 40's.

p.s. I am big Pete Rose fan, and with age and experience I can see parallels between Rose, Armstrong, and the many other athletes (and politicians, etc.) who have been caught cheating, doping, or breaking other rules. They generally lie and obfuscate until the bitter end. I reckon they don't like being singled out for punishment when they figure others have done the same or worse.

[tacprc]

*** Now we go a punish these guys years later because they later became outlawed? Get over it I say, it is part of the history of the game.

I personally don't mind if professional athletes want to take PED's to get bigger and stronger. I think they should be legalized and regulated. Then everyone has the choice if they want to take drugs to risk their lives so they can play a sport and make money. ***

I well remember the home run derby between Sosa and McGwire and I never heard any broadcaster or reporter say that they were using steroids or HGH. Yes, McGwire was openly using creatine but supposedly that was all.

I absolutely object to players using PED's. It creates an uneven playing field, and no player (much less some young kid just getting started) should be forced to take these substances and jeopardize his health in order to have a professional career. And no player should be forced to compete against a super-human, hyper-agressive athlete on PEDs. Think Lyle Alzado. Plus there is the whole issue of respecting the achievements of record holders and their fans. McGwire screwed Roger Maris and his family; and Barry Bonds royally screwed Hank Aaron.

If any sport permitted PED's, I would boycott it.