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View Full Version : Phony Mike Ditka jersey


slats7
07-22-2012, 12:26 PM
not even close

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=49681&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=74&seo=1960s-Mike-Ditka-Dallas-Cowboys-Durene-Jersey-%28MEARS-LOA%29-

both-teams-played-hard
07-22-2012, 12:52 PM
not even close

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=49681&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=74&seo=1960s-Mike-Ditka-Dallas-Cowboys-Durene-Jersey-%28MEARS-LOA%29-

The jersey is accurate to the description. There is no mention of "game used".

both-teams-played-hard
07-22-2012, 12:55 PM
However, this Ditka was made many years after the 1960s.

slats7
07-22-2012, 01:33 PM
The jersey is accurate to the description. There is no mention of "game used".

Your average bidder would assume that this was an official team-issued jersey that he may or may not have used. It isn't.

kudu
07-23-2012, 10:50 PM
If what you are saying is true, I could see how someone could be confused, considering it is in the "All/Football/Game-Used Equipment/Jersey" section.

trsent
07-24-2012, 03:51 AM
not even close

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=49681&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=74&seo=1960s-Mike-Ditka-Dallas-Cowboys-Durene-Jersey-%28MEARS-LOA%29-

So, to follow forum policy you emailed MEARS with your concerns, and what was their reply?

I don't know what you find wrong with the jersey - You say it isn't even close, but you don't give reasons why or take any time to call an item out. I'm sure there is a problem you find, but anyone can post a link and say "not even close" and it means nothing.

Explain to us what is wrong with the jersey and the listing and please, let us know what MEARS replied when you emailed them about your findings.

Then your post will hold some weight.

In the meantime, I don't think anyone who bids in the MEARS auctions believes they are bidding on a game used Mike Ditka jersey. This isn't on eBay with millions of visitors a day - This is a private auction house that has mainly game used customers and no one is that crazy to misunderstand their description.

Now, when the jersey was made could be another discussion, but you haven't given any reasons for your concerns or told us what MEARS replied when you questioned the item to them and gave them 24 hours to respond, per Game Used Universe policy. I'm really curious.

slats7
07-24-2012, 10:53 AM
So, to follow forum policy you emailed MEARS with your concerns, and what was their reply?

I'm supposed to do their work for them? Interesting.

I don't know what you find wrong with the jersey - You say it isn't even close, but you don't give reasons why or take any time to call an item out. I'm sure there is a problem you find, but anyone can post a link and say "not even close" and it means nothing.

Explain to us what is wrong with the jersey and the listing and please, let us know what MEARS replied when you emailed them about your findings.

Then your post will hold some weight.
For starters, the "9" is wrong. An authentic Dallas Cowboy jersey from that era would feature sharp, 45 degree angles on the inner part of the number. I'll use this old Lance Alworth jersey as an example:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6368/76yto.jpg

Compare it to the Mears "9," which features 90 degree angles:

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/521/63146alg.jpg

Furthermore, the nameplates don't match. Someone must have mentioned this to Mears, because they changed the listing to reflect this new information.

Authentic Ditka nameplate, with widely-spaced letters:

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1861/yj76y.jpg

Mears nameplate, featuring bunched letters and fonts that don't match the ones seen above:

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5731/63146blg.jpg

Another problem is that the TV numbers on the Mears jersey are in the wrong place. They should be just above the sleeve stripes, not up near the shoulders.

In the meantime, I don't think anyone who bids in the MEARS auctions believes they are bidding on a game used Mike Ditka jersey. This isn't on eBay with millions of visitors a day - This is a private auction house that has mainly game used customers and no one is that crazy to misunderstand their description.I disagree. As someone already mentioned, this is being listed under the "game-used equipment" category. Worse, the Mears jersey features a Southland Athletic tag. Southland was the official jersey supplier for the Cowboys during those years. Nor did they manufacture replicas for the general public at that time, so an unsavvy bidder might see that tag and assume it's the real deal. It's not.

Now, when the jersey was made could be another discussion, but you haven't given any reasons for your concerns or told us what MEARS replied when you questioned the item to them and gave them 24 hours to respond, per Game Used Universe policy. I'm really curious.Or Mears could simply state, "Although we have no idea when this jersey was made, we can say with certainty that it was never worn by Mike Ditka during his tenure with the Dallas Cowboys."

To placate you, I'll email Mears with my concerns.

trsent
07-24-2012, 02:09 PM
So forum rules are not for you?

The jersey's description is as follows:

The heavyweight jersey includes its identifiers in single-color royal blue tackle twill. Ditka is spaced to a durene nameplate. Situated in the collar is a Southland Athletic tag. Embedded sleeve striping and elbow reinforcements only add to the aura.

No visible game wear is present, and the player name font is not consistent with available images. Based on the inconsistencies found upon evaluation, we have determined this jersey was not worn by Mike Ditka during his playing days.

Nowhere do they try to pass this as game used. The jersey is a piece of crap pro-cut made years later, but they are not trying to deceive anyone with this jersey.

My biggest question is how you post the jersey is no good, give us a link, but don't explain why it is no good. Thanks for your help. Based on the description I believe I explained the jersey very well in the paragraph above. (a piece of crap pro-cut made years later)

trsent
07-24-2012, 02:12 PM
Brendan, just so there is no confusion, here are the forum rules you were missing:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=99

Rule #1 -

You are required to know the rules of the forum - ignorance of the rules will not be a defense.Rule #16 -

In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item. In addition, while this forum is designed to help educate collectors, we will not allow comments that accuse entities in the hobby of participating in any form of criminal wrong-doing. Any posts suggesting criminal wrong-doing should be brought to the attention of the moderators immediately.

slats7
07-24-2012, 02:21 PM
So forum rules are not for you?

The jersey's description is as follows:

The heavyweight jersey includes its identifiers in single-color royal blue tackle twill. Ditka is spaced to a durene nameplate. Situated in the collar is a Southland Athletic tag. Embedded sleeve striping and elbow reinforcements only add to the aura.

No visible game wear is present, and the player name font is not consistent with available images. Based on the inconsistencies found upon evaluation, we have determined this jersey was not worn by Mike Ditka during his playing days.

Nowhere do they try to pass this as game used. The jersey is a piece of crap pro-cut made years later, but they are not trying to deceive anyone with this jersey.

My biggest question is how you post the jersey is no good, give us a link, but don't explain why it is no good. Thanks for your help. Based on the description I believe I explained the jersey very well in the paragraph above. (a piece of crap pro-cut made years later)

I'll tell you what I told the Mears rep who contacted me:

If you go to your website and click on football--game-used equipment--jerseys, the Ditka jersey pops up. But it shouldn't because, as you already conceded, it was never game-used. Unwitting buyers can easily be deceived by such sloppiness. I just think you need to add some language which clearly states that it is some sort of reproduction and not a team-issued piece of equipment. My best guess is that someone got a hold of a plain Southland Athletic jersey and then added the fake numbers and nameplate after the fact.To their credit, Mears has amended the jersey description, although it's still inexplicably listed in the "game-used" category.

Based on the inconsistencies found upon evaluation, we have determined this jersey was not worn by Mike Ditka during his playing days.

trsent
07-24-2012, 02:36 PM
I'll tell you what I told the Mears rep who contacted me:

To their credit, Mears has amended the jersey description, although it's still inexplicably listed in the "game-used" category.

So you did good.

trsent
07-24-2012, 02:36 PM
By the way, the category doesn't mean crap. Anyone who bids because of a category and doesn't read the description deserves what they get.

slats7
07-24-2012, 02:43 PM
By the way, the category doesn't mean crap. Anyone who bids because of a category and doesn't read the description deserves what they get.

It's the bidders' fault that they're getting confusing, contradictory information? Ohhhhhkay.

So you did good.

Yes, yes I did.

commando
07-24-2012, 02:54 PM
I have noticed a seller on eBay offering several Southland tagged durene jerseys for some time now. Judging by his photos, they look really good. To his credit, the seller is up front that these jerseys are not game used or team issued. But I see future problems ahead, a.k.a. the infamous Scoreboard jerseys and Joe Montana helmets.

Here are other Southlands from random sellers (thankfully these larger sizes are a dead giveaway, and these teams didn't use Southland anyway):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Green-Bay-Packers-Vintage-Paul-Hornung-Jersey-/150792267434?pt=US_Football_Fan_Shop&hash=item231beb66aa

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Southland-Athletic-New-York-Jets-Joe-Namath-Authentic-Jersey-sz-56-durene-legit-/320928149500?pt=US_Football_Fan_Shop&hash=item4ab8ceeffc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Southland-Athletic-New-York-Jets-Joe-Namath-Authentic-Jersey-sz-56-durene-legit-/320928149500?pt=US_Football_Fan_Shop&hash=item4ab8ceeffc

beantown
07-24-2012, 05:26 PM
These Southland jerseys were made by Home Run Derby....I've seen them passed off as gamers with tags added...

trsent
07-24-2012, 10:08 PM
These Southland jerseys were made by Home Run Derby....I've seen them passed off as gamers with tags added...

What is Home Run Derby? I have never heard of them (execpt for that old black and white television show that was awesome)

beantown
07-24-2012, 10:27 PM
Home Run Derby was a company out of upstate New York (Buffalo Region)...they produced throwbacks of any team you wanted, which were
produced by Southland Athletics....here is a little about their jerseys...

http://www.jerseycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7664

I contacted the owner several times on jerseys in auction that I thought were his with added Sand Knit tags...he confirmed they were his jerseys....

Not sure what happened to them, but they appear to no longer in business...

BrianK
07-26-2012, 11:59 AM
Excellent information about Home Run Derby. Thanks!

It's worth noting that the Southland tag on the repros (and on the Mears jersey) is slightly different from the vintage Southland tag from the day. Not sure when the change occurred, but it was after 1980. Here are two tags side-by-side. The one on the left is a genuine vintage Cowboys jersey. Ignoring the size tag for the moment, there are differrences in the Southland script, column base, red diamond relative to the athlete's body, and period vs no period after Co.

G1X
07-26-2012, 01:32 PM
BrianK,

Great information to know about the comparison of the Southland tagging. Thanks so much for sharing!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

beantown
07-26-2012, 08:53 PM
Brian....hello...I also believe the Southland tags on the Home Run Derby produced jerseys had a grayish background, where the vintage one were white...