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General Sports Discussion This forum is intended for discussions of general sports and hobby-related topics outside of specific game used memorabilia. This forum is not intended for topics unrelated to sports and will be monitored in strict accordance with forum rules.

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  #11  
Old 02-16-2006, 10:30 AM
byergo byergo is offline
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Default Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

I'm not moving to Cuba. Bonds is guilty of cheating. WWF is entertainment (low quality entertainment for low IQ fans) and not a sport, and yes they abuse roids like crazy. The American public has heard of the steroids in baseball scandal. People take sports and sports history very seriously, because it is important to us. OJ did it.
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2006, 10:36 AM
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trsent trsent is offline
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Default Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Wait! Wait! Wait!

A jury of OUR peers in criminal court said OJ was innocent of murder.

Maybe my attorney is right after all.
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2006, 10:47 AM
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trsent trsent is offline
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Default Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Quote:
Originally Posted by byergo
I'm not moving to Cuba. Bonds is guilty of cheating. WWF is entertainment (low quality entertainment for low IQ fans) and not a sport, and yes they abuse roids like crazy. The American public has heard of the steroids in baseball scandal. People take sports and sports history very seriously, because it is important to us. OJ did it.
You know, I should comment point by point above:

- You should move to Cuba, there you can join the government that doesn't have the freedoms that you appreciate in this county every day.

- Bonds has never been proven to cheat. Even if he used the substance that you claim makes him a cheater, it wasn't against the rules of his sport at the time. Ex post facto is a major part of our legal system. Look it up and learn.

- WWF stands for World Wildlife Fund. What is your issue bashing them? A court of law determined that WWF could only be used by this group, so I have no idea what you are talking about bashing those that help endangered animals. You should be ashamed of yourself! I bet there is very little Steroid abuse in The World Wildlife Fund, if any at all.

- The American public has not heard about the Baseball Steroid ordeal. I would venture 20 - 30% of the public has detailed knowledge of this ordeal. I would also guess around 10% of the total population cares. Do you really think every person in this country cares about your cherished sport? I know the answer, it is no. I love the history it brings, but if you wish to compare baseball stats or stats of something that means something to our history as a country, you know where I stand.

- and finally, once again - A criminal jury of your peers (yes, US Citizens) deemed OJ was innocent of murder. He was freed from jail and I believe he has not served since. This is the criminal system offered in our country, if you don't like it, you know the saying.

- I should also mention, I do not take your comments as a personal attack against me. Debate is great, just understand, we may not agree but we have the freedom to discuss.
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2006, 11:42 AM
yanks12025 yanks12025 is offline
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Angry Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Any one that does take or did should be kicked out of baseball because they cheated. They have to cheat to be the best. If this goes on then america wont have good sports any more.
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  #15  
Old 02-16-2006, 11:56 AM
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trsent trsent is offline
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Default Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Quote:
Originally Posted by yanks12025
Any one that does take or did should be kicked out of baseball because they cheated. They have to cheat to be the best. If this goes on then america wont have good sports any more.
How did anyone cheat?

Using Steroids was not illegal by the rules of baseball.

Wagering on baseball was illegal by the rules of baseball.

Now it is illegal to use Steroids by the rules of baseball. For over 125 years it was not illegal - SO PER EX POST FACTO WHAT CRIME MAY HAVE BEEN COMMITTED?

If the glove does not fit, you must acquit.

What is really funny is that Barry Bonds has not even been convicted in a court of law set by our peers that he did anything illegal - So get over it.

He will be a first ballot Hall-of-Fame Member, and he may even break Hank Aaron's All-Time Home Run record, and there will not be an asterisk next to his name, no matter how much you whine about it on GUU or anywhere else for that matter.

HE DIDN'T BREAK ANY RULES OF THE GAME, WHICH HAS IT'S OWN RULEBOOK.
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  #16  
Old 02-16-2006, 11:57 AM
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suave1477 suave1477 is offline
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Default Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

You know I have to stick my 2 cents in.

I personally beleive Roger Maris should keep the Home Run Record untill someone who hasn't taken steroids beats it. Just my opinion. I will not mention names but for anyone who has broken Roger Maris's record up until now should have an asteric placed next to there record.
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  #17  
Old 02-16-2006, 11:59 AM
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trsent trsent is offline
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Default Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Quote:
Originally Posted by suave1477
I personally beleive Roger Maris should keep the Home Run Record untill someone who hasn't taken steroids beats it. Just my opinion. I will not mention names but for anyone who has broken Roger Maris's record up until now should have an asteric placed next to there record.
Thanks for the laugh, I really needed one.

I remember a great article by Rick Tellander called, "The Record That Almost Broke Him" about how baseball mentally ruined Roger Maris because of that asterisk.

Geez, a season is a season was later deemed the correct result and the asterisk was removed.
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  #18  
Old 02-16-2006, 12:04 PM
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suave1477 suave1477 is offline
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Default Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Hello Trsent hope you got the info on strawberry.

As far as the homerun record Roger should have never gottten the asteric. I mean when babe ruth broke the record he did it in more games then the guy who set it before him. So if that was the case there should have been an asteric next to ruth's record right?
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  #19  
Old 02-16-2006, 12:40 PM
cjosefy cjosefy is offline
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Default Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Quote:
Originally Posted by trsent
How did anyone cheat?

Using Steroids was not illegal by the rules of baseball.

Wagering on baseball was illegal by the rules of baseball.

Now it is illegal to use Steroids by the rules of baseball. For over 125 years it was not illegal - SO PER EX POST FACTO WHAT CRIME MAY HAVE BEEN COMMITTED?

<snip>

HE DIDN'T BREAK ANY RULES OF THE GAME, WHICH HAS IT'S OWN RULEBOOK.
Your reasoning is ridiculous. Just because steroid use wasn't explicitly prohibited doesn't mean that it is then perfectly reasonable to have used them, or that those who did use them (including Barry Bonds, who admitted use in grand jury testimony) should be free from blame.

Yes, the constitution prohibits ex post facto laws, but as you pointed out, this is the game of baseball which has its own rule book, so we can assume that in applying blame retroactively to players, we as fans and the entity of Major League Baseball do not need to follow that document.

Maybe we should instead look at the philosophy of common sense. In baseball terms, doctoring the ball or juicing the bat has been against the rules for decades, but juicing yourself is ok? In the wider realm of sports, the Olympics have banned steroids for a long time, but using them in other athletic arenas is ok?

I hope you really don't subscribe to the idea that doing something that is widely considered by most thinking individuals to be morally, ethically, and physically wrong is nevertheless perfectly fine because a tiny booklet of baseball rules didn't explicitly tell them no.

Quit hiding behind technicalities, and condemn these men for doing something that was wrong. I don't care about the rule book, the record book, or the price of a Raffy bat, but at least I can say that what they did was wrong and that it severely damaged baseball.

Against the rules? No. Against the spirit of the game (and this is the more important question). Yes
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  #20  
Old 02-16-2006, 12:48 PM
earlywynnfan earlywynnfan is offline
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Default Re: Steroids--YOUR cost! $$$

Since nobody else brought this up, i will:

When do we kick Gaylord Perry out of the game and the HOF? And who was that Astro that doctored the ball, Mike Scott?

Do we erase the stats for Sosa and Belle and all the other corked bat guys, too?

And PS: Joe Jackson was guilty, he took the money!! Why doesn't anyone ever cry about the 3rd baseman, what was his name, Weaver? The one who is still banned because he didn't tattletale on his teammates, but was never involved in the fix?

Ken
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