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Game Used Memorabilia Discussion General discussions of game used related memorabilia.

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  #1  
Old 01-05-2006, 05:01 PM
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Eric Eric is offline
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Default Questioning An Item

Hey everyone

I just wanted to post a comment regarding the way we go about questioning items around here. I think an essential part of calling an item into question has to include making an attempt to talk to the seller.

There are many reasons for this- inconsistencies in tagging, lettering and tailoring are the only consistent thing in collecting game used items. There are variations in everything, and there may be an explanation for it once you pose the question to the seller.

It's also about respect. It is not fair to post a negative statement here about someone's business practices without posing the question to them first. You wouldn't want to done about you, so you owe others that same respect.

I had a very nice conversation with Rich Russek at Grey Flannel yesterday. He said he thought the forum was a definite asset to the hobby. He also said he wished many times that people asked him questions before coming on here and calling something of his sketchy.

Rich said he is available to answer questions from people at the Grey Flannel offices, and is always willing to help clear up any issues with their products.

Some might say, "Why doesn't he come on the forum and answer the posts personally?"

He, and any other dealer/authenticator/company is under no obligation to appear here. It wouldn't be fair to judge someone on that. However, sellers need to make themselves available to their consumers and Mr. Russek has offered to do so.

I suggest people take advantage of this with Grey Flannel and any other company questioned around here and feel free to report on their experiences.

Eric
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  #2  
Old 01-05-2006, 08:47 PM
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trsent trsent is offline
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Default Re: Questioning An Item

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric

Some might say, "Why doesn't he come on the forum and answer the posts personally?"
I have addressed this quite a few times. I fully can understand why people such as Richie don't post replies directly on this forum.

They often do, and then users attack them deeper and deeper. Many times when someone with at item comes onto the fourm to defend their decision or views of an item, they get beat up so badly they have no desire to post anymore on these great forums.

I wonder why...No I don't, I know why.
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Joel Alpert
AM Sports Marketing Group
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@TheJoelAlpert

Actively buying unique vintage sports memorabilia, genuine autographs of Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Mickey Mantle and others plus old US currency...
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  #3  
Old 01-06-2006, 02:25 PM
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kingjammy24 kingjammy24 is offline
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Default Re: Questioning An Item

Joel: This forum is a cakewalk compared to the beating Richie chose to take on national television. He'll do People's Court but he's scared of GameUsedForum?

Eric: While I don't disagree with you entirely, I'd like to point out what may be a negative consequence of your suggestion that people discuss issues with sellers first.
To me, this forum is first and foremost about education. It's an incredibly valuable tool for those seeking to learn more about game-used items. The main reason it's such a valuable tool is because of the sheer amount of discourse that occurs on a daily basis. Hashing out issues with sellers first will eliminate a good amount of this discourse. Let me illustrate my point with an example:
I see a 1994 Tony Gwynn on a dealer's Website and feel the fonts are wrong. Under your suggestion, I go to the dealer, hash things out, and discover that the fonts are actually correct. End result? 1 person learnt something about 1994 Padres fonts. No thread is started.
If on the other hand, I came here and posted my opinion, a discussion
would've ensued. Throughout the course of this discussion, it would've been shown that the fonts were correct. End result? Everybody who ever reads that thread, now and in the future, will learn about 1994 Padres fonts. Possibly thousands of people.

Personally, I've never seen the big fuss about throwing accusations at an item. Like I've said before, it's extremely difficult to show that a legit jersey is fake so a good jersey will win out in the end. The fact that it successfully withstood accusations will make it even more attractive.
A jersey isn't ruined because it's been accused. It's the unquestioned/unaccused jerseys that concern me. Personally, I don't see why the dealer of a legit jersey would care if people are calling his items 'sketchy". If they aren't sketchy, then the accusations will be shown to be false and the jersey actually looks better in the end for having withstood so much scrutiny and the seller's reputation is made even better because they've just publically been shown to deal in legitimate items.

Rudy.
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  #4  
Old 01-06-2006, 02:40 PM
Swoboda4 Swoboda4 is offline
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Default Re: Questioning An Item

Eric has a point about talking to a dealer first. You then are armed with more information and can discuss either point. Rudy is right in wanting to foward the information thereafter either way it falls(here's a questionable item - or -Here's a good item that's mislabled). Either way it has to be discussed but lets do it professionally.
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  #5  
Old 01-06-2006, 02:53 PM
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Eric Eric is offline
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Default Re: Questioning An Item

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingjammy24
Joel: This forum is a cakewalk compared to the beating Richie chose to take on national television. He'll do People's Court but he's scared of GameUsedForum?

Eric: While I don't disagree with you entirely, I'd like to point out what may be a negative consequence of your suggestion that people discuss issues with sellers first.
To me, this forum is first and foremost about education. It's an incredibly valuable tool for those seeking to learn more about game-used items. The main reason it's such a valuable tool is because of the sheer amount of discourse that occurs on a daily basis. Hashing out issues with sellers first will eliminate a good amount of this discourse. Let me illustrate my point with an example:
I see a 1994 Tony Gwynn on a dealer's Website and feel the fonts are wrong. Under your suggestion, I go to the dealer, hash things out, and discover that the fonts are actually correct. End result? 1 person learnt something about 1994 Padres fonts. No thread is started.
If on the other hand, I came here and posted my opinion, a discussion
would've ensued. Throughout the course of this discussion, it would've been shown that the fonts were correct. End result? Everybody who ever reads that thread, now and in the future, will learn about 1994 Padres fonts. Possibly thousands of people.

Personally, I've never seen the big fuss about throwing accusations at an item. Like I've said before, it's extremely difficult to show that a legit jersey is fake so a good jersey will win out in the end. The fact that it successfully withstood accusations will make it even more attractive.
A jersey isn't ruined because it's been accused. It's the unquestioned/unaccused jerseys that concern me. Personally, I don't see why the dealer of a legit jersey would care if people are calling his items 'sketchy". If they aren't sketchy, then the accusations will be shown to be false and the jersey actually looks better in the end for having withstood so much scrutiny and the seller's reputation is made even better because they've just publically been shown to deal in legitimate items.

Rudy.
Are you kidding me? It is quite dangerous to suggest a guy is selling bad items. If you turn out to be wrong- you're fine, but his business is now being questioned. Like I said before- you wouldn't want it done to you.

Also- I'm not suggesting that you keep all business offline-
In your case of the Gwynn jersey, what you should do is say "I saw this Gwynn which looked strange because I didn't recognize the fonts- I contacted the seller- Joe Smith and he said "Look at this photo from a 1995 sporting news which shows the matching font"
Then everyone learns and no one's reputation is hurt.
Eric

Last edited by Eric : 01-06-2006 at 06:33 PM.
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  #6  
Old 01-06-2006, 03:35 PM
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ChrisCavalier ChrisCavalier is offline
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Default Re: Questioning An Item

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric
It is unprofessional to suggest a guy is selling bad items. If you turn out to be wrong- you're fine, but his business is now being questioned. Like I said before- you wouldn't want it done to you.
I have to take a moment to determine if there is a basic agreement on the point Eric is making here. As I had posted in a previous thread, while it may not be someone's intention to challenge the credibility of an item and the seller who is offering it, posts that claim (or even strongly imply) an item has problems or issues has the potential to do just that. That is why I believe it is so important that we be very careful in the way we present our questions and also try to get answers directly from a seller before making any potentially damaging claims.

To be clear, one of the most valuable aspects of the forum (and the rest of this site) is ability to acquire information that we would not have otherwise. That ability will help people in the buying process to make sure they don't make the grave buying mistakes that I, and many others on this forum, have made in the past. Again, that is one of the main reasons this site was created. While I couldn't be a bigger proponent of taking advantage of that opportunity, I think we need to do it in a responsible manner. It will help everyone and will increase the credibility of what is being done here.

In fact, I had a conversation with someone today who told me that he, and in his opinion the "big collectors in the hobby", don't read this forum because it is filled with disgruntled people who try to use the forum to simply discredit others. I listened and respectfully disagreed noting the steps that are being taken by the forum (and its members) to be more accountable for the claims they make.

If we can come to an agreement regarding a reasonable protocol to question items (which is one of the main benefits of the forum), I think those with a negative opinion of the forum might see things in a different light and may even decide to participate themselves. I know there may be some out there who may be saying "we don't need them anyway" but I think that would be a mistake. What we are participating in here has the potential to improve the hobby in a dramatic way. However, in my opinion, the way we conduct ourselves will determine just how big an impact we will make.

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe
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  #7  
Old 01-06-2006, 04:21 PM
stlbats stlbats is offline
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Default Re: Questioning An Item

I do agree that the threads that are argumentative and accusatory get way more replies than anything else.


Jason
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  #8  
Old 01-08-2006, 12:24 AM
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apujols04 apujols04 is offline
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Default Re: Questioning An Item

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingjammy24
Joel: This forum is a cakewalk compared to the beating Richie chose to take on national television. He'll do People's Court but he's scared of GameUsedForum?

Eric: While I don't disagree with you entirely, I'd like to point out what may be a negative consequence of your suggestion that people discuss issues with sellers first.
To me, this forum is first and foremost about education. It's an incredibly valuable tool for those seeking to learn more about game-used items. The main reason it's such a valuable tool is because of the sheer amount of discourse that occurs on a daily basis. Hashing out issues with sellers first will eliminate a good amount of this discourse. Let me illustrate my point with an example:
I see a 1994 Tony Gwynn on a dealer's Website and feel the fonts are wrong. Under your suggestion, I go to the dealer, hash things out, and discover that the fonts are actually correct. End result? 1 person learnt something about 1994 Padres fonts. No thread is started.
If on the other hand, I came here and posted my opinion, a discussion
would've ensued. Throughout the course of this discussion, it would've been shown that the fonts were correct. End result? Everybody who ever reads that thread, now and in the future, will learn about 1994 Padres fonts. Possibly thousands of people.

Personally, I've never seen the big fuss about throwing accusations at an item. Like I've said before, it's extremely difficult to show that a legit jersey is fake so a good jersey will win out in the end. The fact that it successfully withstood accusations will make it even more attractive.
A jersey isn't ruined because it's been accused. It's the unquestioned/unaccused jerseys that concern me. Personally, I don't see why the dealer of a legit jersey would care if people are calling his items 'sketchy". If they aren't sketchy, then the accusations will be shown to be false and the jersey actually looks better in the end for having withstood so much scrutiny and the seller's reputation is made even better because they've just publically been shown to deal in legitimate items.

Rudy.
GREAT POST!!!!!
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  #9  
Old 01-08-2006, 12:04 PM
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EndzoneSports EndzoneSports is offline
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Default Re: Questioning An Item

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCavalier
...I had a conversation with someone today who told me that he, and in his opinion the "big collectors in the hobby", don't read this forum because it is filled with disgruntled people who try to use the forum to simply discredit others....

Sincerely,
Christopher Cavalier
CEO - Game Used Universe
I can attest to Chris' point about the "big collectors" avoiding the site for the same reason that is pointed out. In recent discussions with a couple of hobby "pros", the opinions that I heard expressed were along the same lines... "I don't have the time or inclination to get into petty debates with some 20-year old kid who can afford to sit online all day because he has no job and lives with his parents." or "The constant constant bashings (of others' reputation) by [user name deleted] and [user name deleted] don't seem to make this a very user-friendly site in which evryone in the hobby would want to participate."

Some seem to feel that their actions are some form of greater justice somehow serving the hobby, when in fact, hiding behind the semi-annonimity of the computer terminal they can subtly lash out an anything any everything that doesn't suit their way of thinking.

Until we can reign in this sort of mentality and truly provide an interactive means of communicating in a professional and respectul manner, it is quite likely that we will continue to alieninate a significant segment of the hobby's participants.

Respectfully,
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Endzone Sports Charities
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Last edited by EndzoneSportts : 01-08-2006 at 05:17 PM.
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  #10  
Old 01-08-2006, 01:44 PM
ghostkid ghostkid is offline
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Default Re: Questioning An Item

Quote:
Originally Posted by EndzoneSportts
I can attest to Chris' point about the "big collectors" avoiding the site for the same reason that is pointed out. In recent discussions with a couple of hobby "pros", the opinions that I heard expressed were along the same lines... "I don't have the time or inclination to get into petty debates with some 20-year old kid who can afford to sit online all day because he has no job and lives with his parents." or "The constant constant bashings (of others' reputation) by [user name deleted] and [user name deleted] don't seem to make this a very user-friendly site in which evryone in the hobby would want to participate."

Some seem to feel that their actions are some form of greater justice somehow serving the hobby, when in fact, hiding behind the semi-annonimity of the computer terminal they can subtly lash out an anyhting any everything that dosn't suit their way of thinking.

Until we can reign in this sort of mentality and truly provide an interactive means of communicating in a professional and respectul manner, it is quite likely that we will continue to alieninate a signifincat segment of the hobby's participants.

Respectfully,
Thank you for such an insightful post. I am by no means a "big time collector" or a hobby pro, but your comments do a good job at describing my feelings about this site. I regularly check in to read the posts, but am hesitant to get involved. Way too much bashing and negativity going on. I believe this site has tremendous potential, but could be improved greatly if more people acted more responsibly and skipped some of the petty bickering. That's not to say that the thieves selling fake stuff should not be held accountable. Sure, let's get those people out of the hobby and make things more enjoyable for the honest collectors. Kudos to the folks on this site and the fine work they do in that regard. I just hope some of the Op-Ed commentary is kept in check a bit more as we go into the future.

Kevin
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