Classic Auctions

[Lokee]

Re: Classic Auctions

These kind of problems are why I like buying on eBay and with auction companies that accept credit cards. If there is a problem of any kind, either the seller fixes it promptly, or I get my funds back promptly.

I agree 100%. In my opinion it is pretty dodgy to not take credit cards if you are an auction house.

[sungod661]

Re: Classic Auctions

Marc Juteau the owner of Classic auction is Really good guy and in all honesty if theres a problem he fixes it.

I emailed him a few of my concerns and he promptly replied. Classic auction is a very reputable dealer and like i said earlier i have spent many of thousands of dollars with them.


I would still do my home work no matter who the dealer is!!

Marc and the people at classic are terrific people to deal with and will usually resolve any issue!!

[sammy]

Re: Classic Auctions

These kind of problems are why I like buying on eBay and with auction companies that accept credit cards. If there is a problem of any kind, either the seller fixes it promptly, or I get my funds back promptly.

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

Classic auctions ended up sending me a $20.00 bill in the mail even though I didn't request it from them.

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

Update:

Thank you Stu at Meigray for promptly providing evidence of the photo-match and working with me on this.

It looks like each individual match wasn't necessarily conclusive, however as a whole, it definitely makes solid evidence that its the same jersey.

The two area's that were most conclusive were the creased bottom portion of the Penguins logo and a black mark under the alternate captains "A" logo. It also looks like the meshing patter is the same, and the patch placement looks like its in the same location. All of these together make concrete evidence, but each one individually would make it questionable.

UPS did screw up royally. I watched the tracking status from work and noticed it was "delivered" even though a signature was required. I guess one of my neighbors was outside cutting their grass and signed for the pacakge without my permission. It was quite alarming to come home and see no package with an online status of "delivered". I called UPS and they informed me that "Neighbor" signed for the package. My neighbor across the street has a last name Neidler, so I assumed the UPS driver mistook "Neidler" as "Neighbor". Long story short, my Neighbors the Neidlers had my jersey without my authorization. This was exactly the reason why I was hesitant to send off the jersey in the first place because I knew UPS/USPS/FedEx screw up all the time.

Marc at Classic Auctions did offer me a shipping refund for my troubles shipping the jersey to Meigray, however he stated that a Canadian check might be a hassle etc. I pretty much gave up on dealing with Classic during the whole ordeal. When I paid Classic, I was forced to pay $20.00 for them to receive a wire transfer and $45.00 to send them a wire transfer for $65.00, yet to get a $16.00 check from them, it was just a hassle not worth discussing with them. After I finally said, don't worry about the $16.00 Meigray is taking care of me, I was offered $16.00 cash or money order but refused it (it should have just been offered to begin with) and I have not responded to subsequent emails from them.

It should also be noted that Meigray shipped the jersey back to me free of charge and it was re-authenticated free of charge. Thanks again Barry and Stu for the great service!!!

[sungod661]

Re: Classic Auctions

Well i usually stay out of these kind of things because ultimately i end up offending somebody with my humble opinion.

I have bought Many,Many ,Many things from classic because i live in montreal where they are based. I also have consigned in the past to them.

I have also owned a Brian Leetch 98 skills competition jersey. Which had minimal wear. I was lucky enough to photomatch it with some loose threads and the placement of the "c". Also after i sold the jersey i was able to re photo match it with a very small un repaired hole on the arm. Now that i have bored you with my personal experience dealing with a similar jersey, i want to give you my thoughts on your issue.

Classic did you a BIG favour declaring a 50$ value and the reason they send the coa separately is in case the box gets opened and customs sees a coa YOU WILL GET DRILLED WITH DUTY FEES. Trust me on this you have nothing to complain about the fact they declared 50$ value and sent you the coa separately. Also i think meigray has been very fair in offering to re photomatch the jersey for you.

Where i have to agree with you is that classic has unfortunately declined in quality control. In my humble opinion the operation has become very big with lots of money going through there. In the last auction alone there was 5 peices that were obviously not game worn jersey A chelios tbtc, a bossy islanders , a bobby clarke flyers ect....

Do they do this purposely ? i cant answer that and i really hope not. In your case i think classic mislead you clearly stating there was a photmatch and then failed to provide the photomatch. However i do believe the jersey can be photomatched.

One of the big problem in the hobby is the belief that a photomatch proves authenticity. Sorry but it doesent the most important thing to look for a jersey is wear and provenance. You have to do your homework when you are bidding on a shirt worth allegedly thousands of dollars.

ALWAYS DO YOUR HOMEWORK even when buying from reputable dealers sometimes they make mistakes sometimes they might "accidently" let a questionable jersey go through. I in no way blame you for what's going on but i think you did not get ripped off here you wanted a photo matched jagr jersey and in the end you will have a photomatched jagr jersey. I think it sucks classic wasn't clear in there auction.

One last note i have a few pens jersey and marker in the tag is exactly like a jagr jersey i own and also matches the 6's in my lemieux that is currently in the game worn auction.

Good luck my friend i am sure things will work out

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

I agree with you 100% that a style match is not a photo match. If the jersey you purchased shows no wear, and there are no "easy" clues like pinstripes or loose threads to match up, then I'm not sure if a true photo match is possible? I looked at your two photos very closely and could only find two possible areas of interest -- the color of the seams that separate the shoulder colors and the letter "A."

I hope this works out well for everyone. That is a very nice item, to say the least.

(Back to lurking.... over my head)

Yeah, and the black portion of the "A" seems to be shifted to the right on the game photo. There is no ridge on the jersey I have, its just creased in the game photo. The neckline is the closest thing I have found to be an anti-photomatch. The left yellow portion of the neckline near the "V" is 1/4 inch higher than the right portion in the jersey I have. In the game photo, they seem to be pretty close to matching correctly, but then again, it could be the angle of the photo.

[commando]

Re: Classic Auctions

I am not even sure what you mean? I can't tell you how the jersey could be photo-matched because in my opinion it can't.

Classic Auction won't issue me a refund because they are saying it can be photo-matched but they can't tell me how or where. Meigray is the one that's going to attempt to re-authenticate the photo-match to prove or disprove the jerseys authenticity.

I agree with you 100% that a style match is not a photo match. If the jersey you purchased shows no wear, and there are no "easy" clues like pinstripes or loose threads to match up, then I'm not sure if a true photo match is possible? I looked at your two photos very closely and could only find two possible areas of interest -- the color of the seams that separate the shoulder colors and the letter "A."

I hope this works out well for everyone. That is a very nice item, to say the least.

(Back to lurking.... over my head)

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

Why don't you tell us how this jersey can be photo matched. According to you, it cannot because there is no noticeable wear to match up. Just get to the point and say you want your money back.

I am not even sure what you mean? I can't tell you how the jersey could be photo-matched because in my opinion it can't.

Classic Auction won't issue me a refund because they are saying it can be photo-matched but they can't tell me how or where. Meigray is the one that's going to attempt to re-authenticate the photo-match to prove or disprove the jerseys authenticity.

[commando]

Re: Classic Auctions

Again, we are talking a vintage Penguins jersey from the Steve Latin area. Looking similar and a conclusive photo-match are 2 different stories. I have seen tons of Lemieux and Jagr jerseys that "look similar", but it doesn't mean its a photo-match.

Why don't you tell us how this jersey can be photo matched. According to you, it cannot because there is no noticeable wear to match up. Just get to the point and say you want your money back.

[BarryMeisel]

Re: Classic Auctions

Hi Kurt,

Obviously I can't answer questions or hypotheticals posed in Classic's direction, and you've posed a lot of what ifs?

Let's go one step at a time ... once we get the jersey, we will work on satisfying your desire to have a conclusive photo-match.

If you are not satisfied once we do that, then you can discuss with Classic the next steps.

Regards,
Barry

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

Barry,

I understand what you are saying, however my concerns have to do with the jersey not being photo-matchable. Yes I understand that you photo-matched a jersey (we can't be sure this is the same jersey unless a photo-match is found) at one point in time and the COA that Stu created would have that information on it.

When I send you the jersey (I'll meet you half way and I'm going to pay for the shipping to you guys, because I'm not trying to get something for nothing, but I think it's ridiculous that Meigray and I are out shipping & insurance costs over this), if the jersey isn't photo-matchable then what happens and who is responsible for the jersey Meigray or Classic? I really don't want to deal with both companies pointing the finger at the other company and/or at the consigner.

What if the only photo-matchable area is still questionable and not conclusive? I would say I still have a case with Classic Auctions since the original COA does not exist. I.E, it looks like this area and this area could possibly show proof of a match, but it's not conclusive. Am I required to keep the jersey now that it's certified as more of a photo-reference? If it's not a conclusive match, doesn't the value of the jersey decrease? I wouldn't have bid 1 penny if I knew the photo-match wasn't conclusive.


Shouldn't my initial email to them asking to pinpoint the photo-match location been answered a week ago if they verified it as being a conclusive match before posting it for sale? I would say yes because I paid over $300.00 in hammer fees for their guarantee. If Classic auctions themselves can't authenticate a conclusive match as was stated in their auction, they should have never listed it as being so. No where in the auction did it state that the jersey would need to be sent to Meigray for re-authentication because all parties involved did not know where the conclusive match can be found. If I would have known this information in advance, I wouldn't have bid on the jersey. If they would have contacted Meigray in advance, ironed out the photo-match questions since neither they nor the consigner could verify it, the issue would have never escalated to this point. I would still have complained about their ridiculous shipping procedure, however its shady that I got the COA 3 weeks after the jersey.


Other items in the auction were clearly incorrect and not at all researched by them such as the Steve Thomas 03/04 Red Wings Pre-Season jersey. http://www.classicauctions.net/Defau...d=61&lotid=611

He played for the Blackhawks in 02/03 and started the 03/04 season on the Ducks. The Red Wings picked him up in the middle of the 03/04 season, so it is impossible for him to have played in the pre-season for the Wings when he played for the Ducks. Items like this show they did little do little to no research on the item and it took me all but 10 seconds to Google search this information.

Again, I'm not arguing against you, I'm arguing that this should have never happened in the first place. This thread is proving Meigray is reputable, respectable, and even willing to clean up other companies messes at no charge to the customer. In this day and age, you can't say that about many companies.

Thanks for the help and I hope this jersey can be re-authenticated because I want to keep it if proven to be authentic (which I have shown my doubts loud and clear).

[BarryMeisel]

Re: Classic Auctions

Kurt,

Almost all of what you say regarding Pens' jerseys from this era is 100% true. We agree with you.

What Stu and now I have been constantly trying to tell you is this:

We have photo-matched the jersey. We would not have sent this jersey with a photo, and registered it, unless we were 100% CERTAIN.

Like Stu has stated to you, WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO RE-PHOTO MATCH THE JERSEY FOR YOU. IN FACT, IF YOU ARE CONCERNED WITH THE COST OF SHIPPING, WE WILL PICK UP THE SHIPPING SO YOU ARE NOT OUT ONE PENNY.

And as I have already said, there is no authentication fee involved here since we already authenticated the jersey.

BUT WE NEED TO HAVE THE JERSEY HERE TO DO THE RE-PHOTO MATCHING. AND HERE IS WHY, something Stu already told you:

Sometimes, depending upon the quality of the photo and the digital reproduction, a conclusive photo-match in our office, using high quality monitors and a blowup of a photo, might not translate perfectly to a print.

Stu also mentioned to you that he would enhance and pinpoint the match for you in the photo LOA---ONCE WE GOT THE SHIRT BACK.

Happy to help, you just need to let us do the job we've offered at no cost to you.

Feel free to call me toll-free at 888-463-4472, or continue this conversation on this thread. Happy to handle it either way.

Finally, this jersey was registered as a 1998 NHL All-Star Skills Competition jersey. That is why you do not see any wear, and that is why the photo provided was one from the 1998 All-Star Skills Competition.

Regards, Barry

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

Is it me or does that jersey look clean as a whistle? Is there any wear on it?

This is just one reason why I questioned it the second I opened the box. It honestly looks brand new with the exception of 1 microscopic mark on the front of the jersey, 2 marks on the back, and 1 small mark on the back rear of the jersey.

If you take the Meigray certificate out of the picture and Classic Auctions name off as being the seller and some random seller sent you this jersey, didn't include the COA, said it was a conclusive photo-match, sent you a registration only COA 3 weeks later, sent it marked as a $50.00 "Shirt" uninsured, and then the original seller can't point out the photo-match they described as being conclusive... I'm sure you would be asking the same questions I am.

Think about it. If the item (or any item) was listed as the following(and don't forget, vintage Jagr and Lemiuex stuff needs to be 100% conclusively photo-matched):

This is an authentic game worn jersey... The cosigner has informed us and stated that the jersey "[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']comes with a Meigray photo LOA, but you can't really see a match on it. "[/FONT] (which is the email Classic Auctions forwarded me), so we can't really guarantee there is a photo-match since neither we nor the seller can find it, it's missing to original COA from Meigray, we added some details about Jagr from a prior season that has nothing to do with the 1998 season, and will send the jersey to you uninsured as a $50.00 "shirt". Oh and by the way, the registration certificate will come separately even though it would fit inside the box. You may or may not get this certificate.

If I would have known the jersey didn't come with the original COA and neither Classic Auctions nor the seller could find a conclusive photo-match, I would have never bid on the jersey. That itself is the main issue. You can't describe an item as having a "conclusive photo-match" if neither the consignee nor the auction house can give proof of the match.

[kprst6]

Re: Classic Auctions

Look at how the jersey in the game photo has kind of a "ridge" where the yellow fabric in the shoulders meets the white fabric. Does your jersey have that?

The other thing I noticed is the "A" on the chest. The one in the game photo seems to have a wider, 'blockier' top. It may just be the camera angle, however.

Overall, the two jerseys looks very similar.

Again, we are talking a vintage Penguins jersey from the Steve Latin area. Looking similar and a conclusive photo-match are 2 different stories. I have seen tons of Lemieux and Jagr jerseys that "look similar", but it doesn't mean its a photo-match.