Seller admits jersey not game used

[trsent]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

On Sep-11-06 at 18:58:04 PDT, seller added the following information:


This information I received could be true?

In 1989, 1990 and 1991, a handful of top players had tagged versions of retail jerseys made (most were autographed) by a now-defunct East Coast mega-dealer. Though not signed, these 1990 home Jefferies fall into that category, and were not worn by nor issued to him.

Thank you

This information was added by the seller in good faith. There were two bids ($99.00 and the high bid of $100.00) placed a day after this information was added. Bidsnipe programs are not an excuse since eBay doesn't support them, which means if you placed a Snipe and then the additional information was added you are still responsible since your bid was placed after the information was added.

If the buyer has an issue they should take it up with the seller. From everything read it is clear to me that Dave Medima is correct with his view that the seller is not a game used expert as many of us are. They were given good information (from someone on this forum?) and added it to their description.

Someone paid $100.00 for what may have been a game used jersey, but it appears to have been a team issued style jersey. If they are happy with their buy, why should we continue this thread?

Everything appears Kosher to me.

[trsent]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

I wasn't watching this auction, but I don't think you can change the title once a bid has been placed.

Greg, you are correct, you can only change the auction description once a bid has been placed. This also includes answering questions through the eBay system, which I previously mentioned doesn't allow for the use of quotations. You have an option to post the question and answer for all to see.

I'll go back now and look at the auction again.

[otismalibu]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

I wasn't watching this auction, but I don't think you can change the title once a bid has been placed.

[trsent]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

Robert, if the seller left an incorrect title but added to the description, I believe that is fine based on eBay's policies. I do not know every detail, but if an error is made and a bid has been placed all the seller has to do it make it clear somewhere in the listing of the error and there should be no issues.

If you are truly still concerned, I'd contact the proper legal authorities.

I know it would be best for the seller to end the auction and relist the item properly described, but that is not always done. I do not tell people how to run their business, I try, but I find no one listens.

[Swoboda4]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

The seller,no matter how nice or innocent,just concluded a ebay auction with a sale for a "Game Used Baseball Jersey" and, after being informed earlier by Dave Miedema that in all likelihood that it wasn't game used,still kept the title of the auction as game used. The heading wasn't changed and the auction wasn't ended early. Dave Miedema caught this situation first and correctly contacted the seller. The seller to some credit pointed this out but decided nonetheless to keep the Game Used heading. I see this item and start a thread about a questionable jersey and I'm a Monday Morning quarterback? Joel,you cant say don't attack Dave for his comments after in part he writes:
((She is aware of Game Used Forum, and, unfortunately, she is also aware of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks on the Forum who pick apart the slightest honest mistake and take delight in ripping sellers from all backgrounds. I'm sure it will disappoint her to know that the gripers and complainers have now made her a target.

Dave Miedema

Let's please not attack Dave for his comments about the GUU forum as there are truths in his comments that we would all like to see change so people will trust this forum in the future. His comments about the seller are genuine and important to this thread.
__________________
Joel Alpert))

----First of all this thread is not a gripe. Also an honest mistake should be corrected not left to stand and a sale concluded. I didn't "take delight in ripping the "sellers from all BACKGROUNDS(?)" but I tell you what Dave, I do take a certain pleasure when BUYERS from all backgrounds are alerted to a situation such as this. Dave worries about the seller being made a target. The only person she should worry about is game used collector "Keiz112" who bought the :
1990 NY Mets G.Jefferies #9 Game Used Basebase Jersey

Item number: 120030464472

Robert(Swoboda4)
New York

[cbb5]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

Here are two images from Getty from the 1990 season (presumably). Any photo matching experts out there want to see if it matches? It looks close by the placement of the 9 as well as some of the pinstripes around the neck.
Chris

[kingjammy24]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

beavis,

all is not as it seems. although he refers to them as "retail" jerseys, miedema is specifically referring to scoreboard jerseys. technically scoreboard jerseys were "retail" in the sense that they weren't game issued and were solely intended for sale to the public, however they're a far cry from what's typically a retail jersey.

there were retail jerseys of the sort you'd find in a sporting goods shop and then there were scoreboard jerseys which were sold by scoreboard inc. (ie: defunct east coast mega-dealer) and weren't found in retail stores. in essence, two kinds of retail jerseys. the rawlings retail jerseys found in stores are easily discernable from gamers. they had a neck tag, the manufacturer's tag was only sewn on the left & right sides as opposed to all four sides, they lacked any flag tags and strip tags. the buttons were also different in many cases.

the scoreboard jerseys on the other hand were, in most cases, perfect recreations of pro jerseys. they had no neck tags, pro style manufacturer tagging, flag tags, correct strip tags, flawless numbering and lettering. almost impossible to tell apart from gamers. scoreboard only did a few jerseys though and many people are aware of the players and years that they recreated and typically stay away from those players/years.
notably, they did 1989 bo jackson home jerseys with "1989 set 2" flag tags, 1990 jose canseco home jerseys with "2 90" strip tags, a strawberry jersey, a gregg jeffries jersey, and a couple others. do a search on "scoreboard". how to tell a scoreboard jersey from a gamer? the scoreboard jersey shouldn't have any use. other than that, just avoid jerseys on the "scoreboard list". interestingly enough, asi just sent me an email about a sale in which they're offering, surprise, a 1989 bo jackson home jersey for over $1000.

rudy.

[beavisrules]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

is there a way to differentiate a retail Jefferies and a game worn Jefferies from this era? or will all of them be virtually indistinguishable? just curious, thanks

[trsent]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

FYI - I received the following email today, reprinted with permission:


-----Original Message-----
From: dave miedema
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 3:20 PM
To: joel@alpert.net
Subject: Regarding GUF controversy

Joel:
I saw the GUF thread you contributed to regarding the Jeffries jerseys and related stuff. Since I refuse to directly post on GUF due to the plethora of negativity the site generates, I figured I'd send you some info regarding this seller, which you can add to the mix as you see fit.

The seller (a SHE, not a he) indeed, has no idea as to what she's offfering. As I often due when perusing eBay, I have sent her info to help her identify and date certain items. I am the one who advised her on the Jefferies jersey being a retail piece, and I am also the one who has helped her date and ID some of her BP jerseys.

She is aware of Game Used Forum, and, unfortunately, she is also aware of the Monday Morning Quarterbacks on the Forum who pick apart the slightest honest mistake and take delight in ripping sellers from all backgrounds. I'm sure it will disappoint her to know that the gripers and complainers have now made her a target.

Dave Miedema

Let's please not attack Dave for his comments about the GUU forum as there are truths in his comments that we would all like to see change so people will trust this forum in the future. His comments about the seller are genuine and important to this thread.

[trsent]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

FYI - If a person is responding to a question on eBay, quotation marks may not be used in the eBay response system.

I have had to remove them many times before sending a message through the eBay system.

[ironmanfan]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

I know there are a ton of 1990 Mets Jefferies tops out there..It was disclosed in the now defunt newsletter Diamond Duds over 10 years ago to avoid these Jefferies tops.

[Swoboda4]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

Rudy-Even without the quotation marks and say he's not explaining himself correctly,how do you get around his last line,AND WERE NOT WORN BY OR ISSUED TO HIM. If he didn't update correctly he's still saying this might not be worn or issued to Jefferies.That kind of kills that jersey but the whole thing is he keeps the Game Used heading for the item. I agree the rest look good(I wrote,"Higginson jersey is not disputed but how can you trust this situation". Also phrases like,"tagged versions of retail jerseys" don't come from a unknowing person selling for a third party. He basically announced a scandal to be on the lookout for with 89.90.and 91 jerseys that could come from players tagging retail jerseys.

[DonTheLegend]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

i seen this also.

i had this auction in my "watch list". mainly to see what kind of response it had, but then the additional info came out and the bottom seemed to have fallen out.

[kingjammy24]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

i love a good pigpile as much as anyone else, but i think there's some misintrepretation here. i don't think the seller admitted the jersey wasn't game used. i think they simply said they received some info from a third party and then cut and paste that info for everyone to see, leaving it up to potential buyers to decide for themselves.
read:

"This information I recieved could be true? [this information he recieved is the information below. the question mark indicating he doesn't know if it's true or not]
[start of information given to seller from third party]
In 1989, 1990 and 1991, a handful of top players had tagged versions of retail jerseys made (most were autographed) by a now-defunct East Coast mega-dealer. Though not signed, these 1990 home Jefferies fall into that category, and were not worn by nor issued to him. [end of information from third party]
Thank you"

i think he just forgot to use quotes. someone just emailed him info about scoreboard jerseys and he posted the info to help buyers. it appears as if the entire statement is coming from him when it's not.

i've been looking at his stock for awhile. i think his story that he's selling the items from a deceased family member and has no clue about them seems legit. whenever he runs in to any info (he seems to have some guy advising him about how to date majestic bp jerseys), he seems to post it. he's got a mix of retail jerseys and game jerseys.

what's wrong with his angels jerseys? i thought many of them looked pretty good. i was even considering bidding on his 1990 Eichorn BP (with desert storm flag!). ultimately i decided not to simply because i couldn't be sure if many of these jerseys were run through the minors and/or were used only in spring training. other than possibly being recycled through the minors, many of his jerseys looked nice. some of them had "purchased from california angels" stamped inside. i recall that at least two of them came with dick dobbins paperwork. (the dobbins paperwork stated there may have been minor league use involved which is what dissuaded me).

i just think he's got a pile of stuff to auction off from his relative's estate and he's got no clue what most of it is. anytime someone emails him some info about a jersey, he posts it for potential buyers. if anyone can point out to me authenticity issues with his angels jerseys, i'd love to hear it.

rudy.

[Swoboda4]

Re: Seller admits jersey not game used

Oh,and "ITEMS" are sold "AS IS" and PAYPAL only.Makes you feel real comfortable.